Racing Brake Pad / Brake system discussion/questions
#631
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
well, as you know, HP includes torque.... its a torque issue (at the rear tires), but HP is the indicator of how bad it will be or its potential. if you are max HP at that turn, then the rear wheel torque will be at its greatest potential for the car at that speed, even though you might not have max engine torque. again, think "brake stand" and you can see why sometimes LFB might not be a good idea "always".
#632
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Sure, it helps turbo cars but LFB is not mutually exclusive to these cars. By all means it's a good thing with lower c/r motors and bigger turbos but I LFB in my crappy n/a dd road car 85% of the time and also use the throttle for more than 50% of that time. It pulls the nose in while still accelerating and steering simultaneously. It really makes for accuracy.
I think there is some truth in what you say about engine braking but nobody sees it as this. It's still throttle maintenance and a subconscious balancing of the car with the gas pedal over the c/r of the motor. Nobody thinks about this in terms of 'engine braking' and I return to what I said about misuse of terms. Let's move forwards.
I think there is some truth in what you say about engine braking but nobody sees it as this. It's still throttle maintenance and a subconscious balancing of the car with the gas pedal over the c/r of the motor. Nobody thinks about this in terms of 'engine braking' and I return to what I said about misuse of terms. Let's move forwards.
#633
Nordschleife Master
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Deep Downtown Carrier, OK
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You can't drop the nose of the car under throttle while LFB...
I'll remember that, despite the many videos I have of warming the tires on the out lap which clearly show the nose dropping.
Must be my 17 year-old dampers...
I'll remember that, despite the many videos I have of warming the tires on the out lap which clearly show the nose dropping.
Must be my 17 year-old dampers...
Last edited by KaiB; 09-26-2014 at 02:16 PM.
#634
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Now, you have to be quick and awake here. go back and read the post. I said you cant drop the nose if you are not decelerating. so, to be clear of what I said, if you are accelerating (as what 333 said), you cant drop the nose with LFB unless there is some geometry on the chassis that levers the chassis down up front. Kind of what happens when you pull an ebrake on a street car and the rear drops a bit due to the attachment points, leverage, and geometry of the rear suspension.
so, in opposite world, you might be right, but here on earth, if you are accelerating, weight is transferred to the rear of the car. its just basic physics
remember, I said LFB has near the same effect as stabing the brakes off throttle, but with a lot less rear brake bias.... actually based on my measurements and tests, LFB , while WOT can be complete neutralization of the rear brakes.
again, if you get a nose drop with LFB, you are decelerating.
Last edited by mark kibort; 09-26-2014 at 03:16 PM.
#636
Race Car
Another example of you not understanding basic physics......
1. What happens when you accelerate? Load is transferred to the rear so the nose rises.
2. What happens when you decelerate? Load is transferred to the front so the nose drops.
3. What happens when you stop accelerating but do not decelerate? The load equalizes bases on weight distribution and what happens? The nose drops.
You are a disaster......
1. What happens when you accelerate? Load is transferred to the rear so the nose rises.
2. What happens when you decelerate? Load is transferred to the front so the nose drops.
3. What happens when you stop accelerating but do not decelerate? The load equalizes bases on weight distribution and what happens? The nose drops.
You are a disaster......
#637
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Your post for example..... did that add something to the discussion or did it just make you feel good? if it made you feel good for some reason, then you are being a troll.... don't be a troll.
#638
Nordschleife Master
Join Date: Feb 2011
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It's all good.
You may now stop reading, hiring those expensive race coaches and spending evenings analyzing that confusing data.
Mark has all the knowledge you'll ever need. I, for one, have already altered the paradigm which has guided my driving since I began reading my Dad's books in the sixties. Why listen to anybody else....
#639
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Another example of you not understanding basic physics......
1. What happens when you accelerate? Load is transferred to the rear so the nose rises.
2. What happens when you decelerate? Load is transferred to the front so the nose drops.
3. What happens when you stop accelerating but do not decelerate? The load equalizes bases on weight distribution and what happens? The nose drops.
You are a disaster......
1. What happens when you accelerate? Load is transferred to the rear so the nose rises.
2. What happens when you decelerate? Load is transferred to the front so the nose drops.
3. What happens when you stop accelerating but do not decelerate? The load equalizes bases on weight distribution and what happens? The nose drops.
You are a disaster......
you are either accelerating or not accelerating. you cant "stop accelerating" without decelerating. its almost an oxymoron!
Let me break it down even further for you .
acceleration is change in velocity. any change in velocity is acceleration or deceleration.
so, for your #3 question. you are decelerating if you stop accelerating!
when you reach constant speed, or (0 acceleration/deceleration), the nose will drop and weight will transfer to the "no acceleration" proportions.
the original post said he was accelerating, LFB and the nose was dropping while he was accelerating. this is not possible, unless there is a geometry in the suspension that moves with front brake force, and that's not being discussed here.
so, please explain how it is I that is not understanding basic physics? it is you that just said the nose dropped going from acceleration to no acceleration. isn't that deceleration to get there?
and furthermore, again, the original poster said that his nose dropped during acceleration.
#641
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Daniel, Daniel, Daniel....
It's all good.
You may now stop reading, hiring those expensive race coaches and spending evenings analyzing that confusing data.
Mark has all the knowledge you'll ever need. I, for one, have already altered the paradigm which has guided my driving since I began reading my Dad's books in the sixties. Why listen to anybody else....
It's all good.
You may now stop reading, hiring those expensive race coaches and spending evenings analyzing that confusing data.
Mark has all the knowledge you'll ever need. I, for one, have already altered the paradigm which has guided my driving since I began reading my Dad's books in the sixties. Why listen to anybody else....
but if you want to use an expensive coach to tell you, :don't worry, you were slower because of the 3hp loss due to temp, and don't worry about the other sections of track where you were identical.... oh, and that bobble of speed as you exited the turn, don't look at that too."....... man, you guys really have your heads in the sand...... just because you pay for advice, doesn't mean its worth anything........ but go ahead, keep on cutting those checks!
#642
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Actually Patrick did and then you did as well.
you have to keep up here if you want to play!
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...l#post11677767
actually here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...l#post11677903
and then, quite funny.. YOU!!
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...l#post11677948
now, in your post you make a jab at " you cant drop the nose under full throttle".... when in my post you were making fun of, I said that you cant drop the nose when accelerating while LFB......... see how this can get so ugly! you have to read and respond to what was said, not what it didn't say.
you see, I can understand what you meant and mis read. correct me if I am wrong, but you were referring to LFB while full throttle and the nose will dive. yes, I agree. again again again. all that left foot braking does, is remove any effective rear brake input, which might not be perfect for all turn approaches. that's all im saying. Its not "always" better as someone said.
you have to keep up here if you want to play!
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...l#post11677767
actually here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...l#post11677903
and then, quite funny.. YOU!!
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...l#post11677948
now, in your post you make a jab at " you cant drop the nose under full throttle".... when in my post you were making fun of, I said that you cant drop the nose when accelerating while LFB......... see how this can get so ugly! you have to read and respond to what was said, not what it didn't say.
you see, I can understand what you meant and mis read. correct me if I am wrong, but you were referring to LFB while full throttle and the nose will dive. yes, I agree. again again again. all that left foot braking does, is remove any effective rear brake input, which might not be perfect for all turn approaches. that's all im saying. Its not "always" better as someone said.
#643
you can troll or you can learn something or gain perspective here. Ill call you out on a lot of wives tales... prove they are wives tails and you (we) might gain a better understanding along the way.
Your post for example..... did that add something to the discussion or did it just make you feel good? if it made you feel good for some reason, then you are being a troll.... don't be a troll.
Your post for example..... did that add something to the discussion or did it just make you feel good? if it made you feel good for some reason, then you are being a troll.... don't be a troll.
#644
YOU are calling me out on basic physics??
you are either accelerating or not accelerating. you cant "stop accelerating" without decelerating. its almost an oxymoron!
Let me break it down even further for you .
acceleration is change in velocity. any change in velocity is acceleration or deceleration.
...
you are either accelerating or not accelerating. you cant "stop accelerating" without decelerating. its almost an oxymoron!
Let me break it down even further for you .
acceleration is change in velocity. any change in velocity is acceleration or deceleration.
...
At any point the car is accelerating more weight is on the rear. The amount of weight on the rear is proportional the rate of acceleration. More weight on the rear means nose up.
Another example of you not understanding basic physics......
1. What happens when you accelerate? Load is transferred to the rear so the nose rises.
2. What happens when you decelerate? Load is transferred to the front so the nose drops.
3. What happens when you stop accelerating but do not decelerate? The load equalizes bases on weight distribution and what happens? The nose drops.
1. What happens when you accelerate? Load is transferred to the rear so the nose rises.
2. What happens when you decelerate? Load is transferred to the front so the nose drops.
3. What happens when you stop accelerating but do not decelerate? The load equalizes bases on weight distribution and what happens? The nose drops.
-Mike
#645
Drifting
Whoa! Review your Newtonian fizziks. Of course you can stop accelerating without decelerating. F=ma remove the force and a=0. Make the force act in the opposite direction you get negative values for a.