Astroman

That rule book typo should be fixed now, not next year.

good hands

I have no dog in this fight but ice pedal seems to be a problem for the newer cars. That is totally unacceptable from a safety consideration so there must be some kind of allowance there or a universal fix allowed.

Krokodil

+1. The "ice pedal" issue is real. So, until there is some sort of a "race flash" for the stock ABS system the rule really should allow aftermarket ABS.

To not allow replacement of the ABS puts everyone on track at risk - especially those in the lead.

Cheers,

Veloce Raptor

Well...I am not posting here to be agumentative...but anyone racing a newer ABS car should already know (a) that ice mode can happen, (b) how and where it can happen, and 9() what they need to do as a driver to prevent it and/or respond appropriately to it.

Same as cars that have no ABS: they are prone to lockup, and the driver needs to drive appropriately to keep themselves & others out of the Armco. That's life, as E cars and 997 Cup drivers know... That's the choice one makes in picking that particular car to race. Should all 997 Cups be allowed to add Teves or bosch M4 systems without moving to GTA???

I guess I don't see the reason to allow $10,000 aftermarket ABS systems just to prevent "ice mode". At a certain point, scope creep will ruin all classes, IMO...

Der ABT

ALL RACES SHOULD BE POINTS RACES>....im glad others like this as much as i do.

Passenger seats...cmmmooonnnn...hopefully this is the year.


no dog in this fight either but

i find it hard to believe there isnt another option for an ABS system that isnt a race system.....another street version vs a motorsport version...ive heard of DE guys doing some things that have worked so far..
i would just much rather not get punted in a corner from something like ice pedal...
if im not mistaken the Rules were actually changed several years ago to allow you to swap things out to deal with this but were then changed back for whatever reason
ive seen the icepedal in races (in my e class car hahah...)and in DE cars...its freaking scary...manageable but when your side to side going into a corner..things happen fast..guy in front of you looses it forcing you to react quickly etc..mitigating it and wrecking are too close to one another and it is really a safety issue

NaroEscape

I can see both sides of the "ice pedal" argument: as a guy that has NEVER tracked a car with ABS, I echo Dave's comments by saying "then learn to drive within the limits of your car". The modifications being allowed in "stock" class is getting to the point that to build a competitive "stock" car is reaching GT car territory. But as Der ABT pointed out, I don't want to be plowed into by a guy that experiences ice pedal...

Juan Lopez

I don't have abs in my race cars but wonder, as this is a problem, shouldn't it just be de-activated? (I'm sure that the computer might go crazy) but if it is a known problem, I see 3 solutions; Dave's point, upgrade to a race specific system (with a corresponding change in class - GT?) or take it off.

racing916

I agree Bob not to much stock about a "stock" car! Just get rid of the passenger seat and make them all GT cars. . Also to reduce the number of classes can't pca just put all GTB and GTA cars in a GT class based on displacement hp/l formula?

I have no dog in this fight but I would love to see the cup cars go back to Michelins. If you run a GT car you are usually stuck with the cup cars and the Pirelli rubber clag was incredible at Lime Rock. My hoosier tires seemed to be magnets for Perelli rubber and it does not come off after a turn like the Michelin rubber. I came into the pits in the first race because the car was shaking so bad from the tires being so out of balance from pickup that I thought something was broken in the front end.

rmag

As one who experiences Ice Pedal, and has been a proponent of the rule change, I have to disagree with Dave's comments Can you learn to drive and try and avoid it. Absolutely. But ultimately it will happen, and usually when you need your brakes the most. Emergency situations or times when you get chopped can force you to apply the brakes a certain way instinctively. This is when it can, and will occur, and this is when you need them the most. I've been put in situations where you probably couldn't have fit a sheet of paper between our two cars because of this. It's an accident waiting to happen, and PCA knows about it (written up in the CR news letters 3-4 times over the past 5 years, and in 2010 they actually changed the rules to allow it). No way is it like having to learn to drive a car without ABS as Dave stated. That is predictable. Ice Mode is not. I've spoken with Vicky and Brian about this and seems there stance is there is not enough empirical evidence (i'e wrecks) within PCA to warrant a change. Guess the only positive is, when it happens, I won't get a13 as it will be a mechanical

As for PCCB brakes rotors vs being allowed to run steel rotors, your adding weight in what Doug said. How is that an advantage? they are 15lb heavier per corner than PCCB, and 8lb heaver than stock steel. Thats rotating mass, so equivalent of probably 200lb (ok Rennlist Police can correct me on the formula, but just a guess). So there is a huge trade off of having that option on your car. If we start creating rules for specific options, what about 996/997 factory aerokits, sport chrono which adds mid torque, 996 c4 Euro cars which had bigger brakes. Newer cars have bigger brakes, S models have bigger brakes, yet they are in the same class, what about those. What about '95 993 w OBDI being allowed to chip, while '96 993 OBDII not being alllowed?

Best advice if you want to even the playing field, Hire Dave Scott and learn to drive faster.

Oh and all races should be points races, and grid girls should become mandatory

rmag

Tried disconnecting ABS. Unfortunately it doesn't work well. When applying brakes, after about 20% pressure, they just lock up. No way to modulate like cars that came without ABS. Could it be done. Yes, but probably have to change a lot of things which would be outside the rules.

Juan Lopez

Sounds dangerous and I think this caught a fellow renlister who ended up backing into a friend's car at Sebring. Can ABS be deactivated?

Juan Lopez

Thanks for the feedback. Not sure how they compare against the Cup brakes where there is about .75 inches of travel...

rstrahota

The current rules for GT give a tip of the hat to the notion that there are potential performance advantages to slicks versus something like an R6. While I agree that our level the driver can make the biggest difference, I also think at our level we should not be encouraged by the class rules to spend the extra 800bucks or so (per weekend) on tires. I would like to see the rules tilt more towards sanity wherever possible.
ds

Veloce Raptor

You are a very wise man

You're right, and ice mode is a real issue. I guess where I differ is that IMO it is predictable. At least in my experience it has been: hard brake zones with bumps or undulations on the track. Sebring is prime ice mode territory, as was VIR prior to the re-pave (I.E., T1).

rmag

Don't differ here. It is basically predicatable. But big difference between that and avoidable. Every brake zone all it can take is a bonehead move by a competitor or a bump you didnt know about, and bingo, no brakes. The consequences aren't slight, they are sever. When you are at limit, there is no margin or recovery when your brakes disappears.

As for ABS replacement, there are STREET ABS units which cost $1800 which can be used to fix the problem, not $10k race setups