Kimi and Alonso Silly Season
09-11-2013, 04:09 PM
#61
Pete,
There was nothing about Alonso that was "masked" during his time with Ferrari.
He was/is/always will be a narcissistic sociopathic douchebag with extremely highly developed driving skills.
Leopards don't change their spots ... it doesn't matter what team you put DV into ... the result will always be the same; especially as long he is associated with Flavio.
This can only be viewed as a huge bitch slap to Alonso by Luca. I think Luca and the team took DV's latest public whining to heart ... finally.
Now the only thing left is to wait for 2014 and see exactly how many HP Newey is going to be down compared to Mercedes and Ferrari ... nothing new there.
There was nothing about Alonso that was "masked" during his time with Ferrari.
He was/is/always will be a narcissistic sociopathic douchebag with extremely highly developed driving skills.
Leopards don't change their spots ... it doesn't matter what team you put DV into ... the result will always be the same; especially as long he is associated with Flavio.
This can only be viewed as a huge bitch slap to Alonso by Luca. I think Luca and the team took DV's latest public whining to heart ... finally.
Now the only thing left is to wait for 2014 and see exactly how many HP Newey is going to be down compared to Mercedes and Ferrari ... nothing new there.
Gee, stop sugarcoating/mincing words/beating around the bush...really wish just once You would say what You meant....LOL
09-11-2013, 04:11 PM
#62
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Alonso welcomes Kimi:
"I'd like to welcome my new travelling companion: together, starting next year, we will have to tackle a very demanding technical and racing challenge."
Kimi comments on Alonso:
"I can't wait to be driving a Prancing Horse car again and to reacquaint myself with so many people with whom I had such close links, as well as working with Fernando, whom I consider a great driver, in order to bring the team the success it deserves."
"I'd like to welcome my new travelling companion: together, starting next year, we will have to tackle a very demanding technical and racing challenge."
Kimi comments on Alonso:
"I can't wait to be driving a Prancing Horse car again and to reacquaint myself with so many people with whom I had such close links, as well as working with Fernando, whom I consider a great driver, in order to bring the team the success it deserves."
09-11-2013, 04:31 PM
#63
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Finn,
I hope you are right. What happened with Alonso and Hamilton at McLaren was unbelievable if not predictable later on given the strong rookie season he had coupled with the fact that Hamilton was the chosen son of Ron Dennis. After Lewis' initially success, he felt he deserved to be the team leader and Alonso felt that as well as he was brought on board to win the WDC and groom a future driver.
What I see at Ferrari is different for 2014, at least initially. On the surface you would expect Alonso to be the team leader, but Kimi is well known to everyone in the garage and factory and has the trump card of being the last world champion for Ferrari, something that will hang over Alonso's head the entire time he is there.
Second, Kimi is more of a laid back kind of personality. In 2008 when Massa had the better of the Kimi, Kimi didn't throw a fit and didn't object to having Massa "pass him" when he knew that Massa was in championship contention... as it should have been since Massa did the same for Kimi in 2007.
Third, both drivers have to be Machiavellian like in their approach to the 2014 season. They are not the enemy of each other, Vettel and RBR are with Mercedes F1 closely behind and the team principals need to remind them of the goal each and everyday. That is the only way to defeat the Red Bull IMHO.
There is no doubt that Ferrari now have changed their philosophy of having a clear #1 and 2 and have 2 of the 4 best drivers on grid. The points collected by both will be $$ in the bank in terms of the constructors championship, which is the most important thing to Ferrari followed by a driver's championship.
I hope you are right. What happened with Alonso and Hamilton at McLaren was unbelievable if not predictable later on given the strong rookie season he had coupled with the fact that Hamilton was the chosen son of Ron Dennis. After Lewis' initially success, he felt he deserved to be the team leader and Alonso felt that as well as he was brought on board to win the WDC and groom a future driver.
What I see at Ferrari is different for 2014, at least initially. On the surface you would expect Alonso to be the team leader, but Kimi is well known to everyone in the garage and factory and has the trump card of being the last world champion for Ferrari, something that will hang over Alonso's head the entire time he is there.
Second, Kimi is more of a laid back kind of personality. In 2008 when Massa had the better of the Kimi, Kimi didn't throw a fit and didn't object to having Massa "pass him" when he knew that Massa was in championship contention... as it should have been since Massa did the same for Kimi in 2007.
Third, both drivers have to be Machiavellian like in their approach to the 2014 season. They are not the enemy of each other, Vettel and RBR are with Mercedes F1 closely behind and the team principals need to remind them of the goal each and everyday. That is the only way to defeat the Red Bull IMHO.
There is no doubt that Ferrari now have changed their philosophy of having a clear #1 and 2 and have 2 of the 4 best drivers on grid. The points collected by both will be $$ in the bank in terms of the constructors championship, which is the most important thing to Ferrari followed by a driver's championship.
09-11-2013, 04:55 PM
#64
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So when were the last Constructor's Championships for Ferrari?
IIRC, they were when there was a clear #1 and a very good (and clearly defined) #2 driver.
So, all of a sudden Ferrari is going to abandon what worked up until DV arrived.
DV had a very good (as Pete so eloquently pointed out) #2 driver in Massa, along being THE BEST DRIVER IN F1 as their clear #1.
And they collected how many Constructors championships?
And they collected how many World Drivers championships?
How is the addition of Kimi going to correct their wind tunnel, bad race strategy, etc ?
How long is DV going to sit back and allow his #1 status to be challenged by Kimi.
IMHO, both DV and Kimi are driving on a single year contract. I doubt either one will be at Maranello next season.
IMHO, 2014 rests squarely in the hands of Rory.
Rory and Ferrari vs Newey and RedBull? If I were a betting man, I know where my money would be.
In the meantime, I can sit back and enjoy watching DV win another SECOND place finish in the WDC, having his *** handed to him by a team that neither wants nor needs him and his tampon laiden PMS driven ego and baggage.
He should dump Flavio and hire Brenda Vaccarro as his agent.
IIRC, they were when there was a clear #1 and a very good (and clearly defined) #2 driver.
So, all of a sudden Ferrari is going to abandon what worked up until DV arrived.
DV had a very good (as Pete so eloquently pointed out) #2 driver in Massa, along being THE BEST DRIVER IN F1 as their clear #1.
And they collected how many Constructors championships?
And they collected how many World Drivers championships?
How is the addition of Kimi going to correct their wind tunnel, bad race strategy, etc ?
How long is DV going to sit back and allow his #1 status to be challenged by Kimi.
IMHO, both DV and Kimi are driving on a single year contract. I doubt either one will be at Maranello next season.
IMHO, 2014 rests squarely in the hands of Rory.
Rory and Ferrari vs Newey and RedBull? If I were a betting man, I know where my money would be.
In the meantime, I can sit back and enjoy watching DV win another SECOND place finish in the WDC, having his *** handed to him by a team that neither wants nor needs him and his tampon laiden PMS driven ego and baggage.
He should dump Flavio and hire Brenda Vaccarro as his agent.
09-11-2013, 04:56 PM
#65
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09-11-2013, 05:20 PM
#67
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09-11-2013, 05:29 PM
#68
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Very interesting union.
What if:
1) Kimi drives circles around FA?
2) FA drives circles around Kimi?
3) They both drive well and stick it to RBR?
4) They both struggle in another inferior Ferrari car?
5) They both get along well and work reasonably well together (like Hamilton and Button)?
6) They hate each other and create a bunch of team drama (like Vettel and Webber)?
Lots of possibilities. It's going to be fun to watch!
What if:
1) Kimi drives circles around FA?
2) FA drives circles around Kimi?
3) They both drive well and stick it to RBR?
4) They both struggle in another inferior Ferrari car?
5) They both get along well and work reasonably well together (like Hamilton and Button)?
6) They hate each other and create a bunch of team drama (like Vettel and Webber)?
Lots of possibilities. It's going to be fun to watch!
09-11-2013, 05:50 PM
#69
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Interesting info starting to come out now that this deal became official...
For example, I just read that Hulkenberg's Ferrari deal had been in the works for 2+ months and that it was supposed to be signed at Hungary GP but then Alonso's complaining played a role in it that Montezemolo wanted to show who's boss and wanted Kimi instead of Hulk as Alonso would've much rather had Hulk as his team mate.
Also, Ferrari informed Hulkenberg's manager about the decision by text message... That's pretty damn lame, especially after negotiating for 2 months.
Massa is now trying to go to Lotus, as is Hulkenberg. Nothing against Massa but if Lotus doesn't hire Hulk, they're passing on a great opportunity.
Massa might be able to bring more sponsors/money but Hulk is the best driver out there after top 4-5 and is certainly an investment for the future.
For example, I just read that Hulkenberg's Ferrari deal had been in the works for 2+ months and that it was supposed to be signed at Hungary GP but then Alonso's complaining played a role in it that Montezemolo wanted to show who's boss and wanted Kimi instead of Hulk as Alonso would've much rather had Hulk as his team mate.
Also, Ferrari informed Hulkenberg's manager about the decision by text message... That's pretty damn lame, especially after negotiating for 2 months.
Massa is now trying to go to Lotus, as is Hulkenberg. Nothing against Massa but if Lotus doesn't hire Hulk, they're passing on a great opportunity.
Massa might be able to bring more sponsors/money but Hulk is the best driver out there after top 4-5 and is certainly an investment for the future.
09-11-2013, 06:18 PM
#70
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Kimi's joining Ferrari isn't a move that happened in isolation. Ferrari also poached Lotus's technical director, James Allison, who is now their Chassis Technical Director. I think Kimi + Fernando is one component but Kimi + Allison's chassis is also a known quantity, no?
I dunno, Ferrari has a lot of money and given all the changes that all teams are about to have to undergo (and nevermind if Michelin comes back into the picture and goes low-profile on the tires!) it makes sense to eliminate one variable by having both drivers be as rock-solid as these two. They can grow talent in a few years once the dust has settled from the 2014 changes.
I dunno, Ferrari has a lot of money and given all the changes that all teams are about to have to undergo (and nevermind if Michelin comes back into the picture and goes low-profile on the tires!) it makes sense to eliminate one variable by having both drivers be as rock-solid as these two. They can grow talent in a few years once the dust has settled from the 2014 changes.
Last edited by leejo; 09-11-2013 at 06:46 PM.
09-11-2013, 06:26 PM
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^^ Publically complaining is one thing (Prost got fired for doing so in his day with Ferrari), but going to a rival team and trying to get the seat vacated by Webber instead of trying to work together and fighting it out against RBR is what set Luca off ----- this after signing a long term contract and saying you want to end your career with Ferrari and then less than a year later trying to jump ship only to be rejected by RBR???
I can't emphasis enough how a person of Montezemolo's status and ego must have felt to go back to Kimi and ask him to come back as a driver. If what Finn is saying is true and they had plans to bring in Hulk, only now can you begin to realize how pissed Alonso's actions must have made Luca that he changed his driver line up for the future. This cannot end well for Alonso
I can't emphasis enough how a person of Montezemolo's status and ego must have felt to go back to Kimi and ask him to come back as a driver. If what Finn is saying is true and they had plans to bring in Hulk, only now can you begin to realize how pissed Alonso's actions must have made Luca that he changed his driver line up for the future. This cannot end well for Alonso
09-11-2013, 07:35 PM
#72
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Pete,
As much as Luca may love his ego and as much love and respect he has for Ferrari (I still remember when he first started working for Enzo ... I have pictures somewhere), Luca loves Santander money.
Granted, he gets 50M from Bernie before they even get their Constructors money and they have folks who to this day would make Enzo proud by overpaying for his road cars so he can race and could probably afford to launch DV and his sponsor
But something tells me DV is being kept around in order to continue to collect the Santander checks.
Personally, I hope Luca spends next year making DV's live a living hell in front or and behind the scnes and I hope he calls him out more often.
However, something tells me that DV is telling Flavio to find him the first ticket out of Ferrari. Poor Flavio, the list of teams willing to take on DV and her baggage is continually shrinking.
Hell, I've come to like Prost more than DV ... something I thought would be impossible.
As much as Luca may love his ego and as much love and respect he has for Ferrari (I still remember when he first started working for Enzo ... I have pictures somewhere), Luca loves Santander money.
Granted, he gets 50M from Bernie before they even get their Constructors money and they have folks who to this day would make Enzo proud by overpaying for his road cars so he can race and could probably afford to launch DV and his sponsor
But something tells me DV is being kept around in order to continue to collect the Santander checks.
Personally, I hope Luca spends next year making DV's live a living hell in front or and behind the scnes and I hope he calls him out more often.
However, something tells me that DV is telling Flavio to find him the first ticket out of Ferrari. Poor Flavio, the list of teams willing to take on DV and her baggage is continually shrinking.
Hell, I've come to like Prost more than DV ... something I thought would be impossible.
09-11-2013, 07:48 PM
#73
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Just a quick note on Felipe Massa. This is not meant to be an eulogy, but rather a sincere "Thank you" for his service.
Felipe was a superstar kart racer in Brazil who moved to Europe to hon his racing skills. Eventually, Felipe broke into F1 with the Sauber team as a Ferrari junior driver on loan to Peter Sauber's team to gain valuable experience.
Felipe finally got his opportunity with the Scuderia along side Michael Schumacher before Schumi's retirement in 2006.
In 2007, Massa had a new superstar teammate who won the WDC in his first year with Ferrari.
In 2008, Massa finally had a better year than his teammate and literally thought he had done enough to win the World Driving Championship coming across the finish line well ahead of ever other driver on the grid. Unfortunately, the wait from the time he finished and the time Lewis Hamilton finished was the only time he was WDC as a last lap, last corner pass (some may say point by) from Timo Glock allowed LH to win his only WDC.
In 2009, Felipe was having another good year when in the last race before summer break, a 2 lb. spring came off of Rubens Barachello's Brawn GP car during a qualifying session and struck his helmet just above the visor while traveling at 180 mph. Massa lost control and ran head first into a tire wall.
Felipe should have been dead that day but for the exceptional medical care available at every F1 race.
After a long rehab process, buoyed by the promise from the Ferrari team that if medically cleared, he would race again in their car, Massa came back and initially was not very quick, but eventually he would be on pace and on occasion, faster than his new teammate, Fernando Alonso.
Although many will not think very much of Felipe Massa as an F1 driver, let's not forget that he has perhaps had the strongest teammates in the history of Formula one with 3 different WDC combining for 10 world championships and nearly won one himself.
Felipe will always be considered a Ferrari favorite because he nearly lost his life driving for them and he always did what the team asked him to do without complaint including pulling over for Fernando Alonso when his team asked him to.
In turn, Ferrari has been very loyal to Felipe giving him many more years of service than a top team maybe should have after his accident and made him wealthy and able to take care of his family for their lifetimes.
I wish Felipe well in his future and believe we'll see him at various Ferrari promotional events in the future.
Felipe was a superstar kart racer in Brazil who moved to Europe to hon his racing skills. Eventually, Felipe broke into F1 with the Sauber team as a Ferrari junior driver on loan to Peter Sauber's team to gain valuable experience.
Felipe finally got his opportunity with the Scuderia along side Michael Schumacher before Schumi's retirement in 2006.
In 2007, Massa had a new superstar teammate who won the WDC in his first year with Ferrari.
In 2008, Massa finally had a better year than his teammate and literally thought he had done enough to win the World Driving Championship coming across the finish line well ahead of ever other driver on the grid. Unfortunately, the wait from the time he finished and the time Lewis Hamilton finished was the only time he was WDC as a last lap, last corner pass (some may say point by) from Timo Glock allowed LH to win his only WDC.
In 2009, Felipe was having another good year when in the last race before summer break, a 2 lb. spring came off of Rubens Barachello's Brawn GP car during a qualifying session and struck his helmet just above the visor while traveling at 180 mph. Massa lost control and ran head first into a tire wall.
Felipe should have been dead that day but for the exceptional medical care available at every F1 race.
After a long rehab process, buoyed by the promise from the Ferrari team that if medically cleared, he would race again in their car, Massa came back and initially was not very quick, but eventually he would be on pace and on occasion, faster than his new teammate, Fernando Alonso.
Although many will not think very much of Felipe Massa as an F1 driver, let's not forget that he has perhaps had the strongest teammates in the history of Formula one with 3 different WDC combining for 10 world championships and nearly won one himself.
Felipe will always be considered a Ferrari favorite because he nearly lost his life driving for them and he always did what the team asked him to do without complaint including pulling over for Fernando Alonso when his team asked him to.
In turn, Ferrari has been very loyal to Felipe giving him many more years of service than a top team maybe should have after his accident and made him wealthy and able to take care of his family for their lifetimes.
I wish Felipe well in his future and believe we'll see him at various Ferrari promotional events in the future.
Wishing him the best.
09-11-2013, 07:52 PM
#74
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Pete,
Well said about Massa, there is no doubt in my mind that they kept him instead of Kimi (and as long as they did) because of the injury in Hungary.
I'm not so sure. You well know I'm not a big Alonso fan (I know as well as anyone that he's one of the fastest & best but the other stuff is just stupid) but he's older and with a true and honest laid back attitude guy Kimi is, it might work.
Of course he has a massive ego so hen paired with a driver that has an equal and not a lap dog status in the team, things can get dicey. I have no doubt if they're performing equally or Alonso a bit better (which at least in first year should be the case), things are good but/if it's the other way around, fireworks will most likely happen.
I just hope, and have a reasonable feeling since they hired Kimi back, that they listen to Kimi when developing their car. If they do it the way they did with Massa & Kimi, it's going to be screwed up but if they look back to year 2007 & 2009, they must realize what they did was not the smart thing to do.
One more: When I this was official, I immediately heard Briatore's voice in my head the way he said in Top Gear episode in Monaco "Oh Jezuz Crista!"
Well said about Massa, there is no doubt in my mind that they kept him instead of Kimi (and as long as they did) because of the injury in Hungary.
I'm not so sure. You well know I'm not a big Alonso fan (I know as well as anyone that he's one of the fastest & best but the other stuff is just stupid) but he's older and with a true and honest laid back attitude guy Kimi is, it might work.
Of course he has a massive ego so hen paired with a driver that has an equal and not a lap dog status in the team, things can get dicey. I have no doubt if they're performing equally or Alonso a bit better (which at least in first year should be the case), things are good but/if it's the other way around, fireworks will most likely happen.
I just hope, and have a reasonable feeling since they hired Kimi back, that they listen to Kimi when developing their car. If they do it the way they did with Massa & Kimi, it's going to be screwed up but if they look back to year 2007 & 2009, they must realize what they did was not the smart thing to do.
One more: When I this was official, I immediately heard Briatore's voice in my head the way he said in Top Gear episode in Monaco "Oh Jezuz Crista!"
09-11-2013, 07:56 PM
#75
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Kimi's joining Ferrari isn't a move that happened in isolation. Ferrari also poached Lotus's technical director, James Allison, who is now their Chassis Technical Director. I think Kimi + Fernando is one component but Kimi + Allison's chassis is also a known quantity, no?
I dunno, Ferrari has a lot of money and given all the changes that all teams are about to have to undergo (and nevermind if Michelin comes back into the picture and goes low-profile on the tires!) it makes sense to eliminate one variable by having both drivers be as rock-solid as these two. They can grow talent in a few years once the dust has settled from the 2014 changes.
I dunno, Ferrari has a lot of money and given all the changes that all teams are about to have to undergo (and nevermind if Michelin comes back into the picture and goes low-profile on the tires!) it makes sense to eliminate one variable by having both drivers be as rock-solid as these two. They can grow talent in a few years once the dust has settled from the 2014 changes.