Streak

Chris has always been a reasonable man.

winders

I don't get it either. And yes, I have read the NASA text on it.

Scott

Gary R.

The whole thing baffles me. White car on the edge of track alongside of red car. Red car comes over and whacks into white car. Red car flies off track and flips. White car was supposed to drive 1/4 of his car off the track when the red car turned into him, and then if the red car still hit him the rule would have been followed to the letter? I think he simply did not expect to get squeezed to the outside there as there was no reason for the red car to do it..

BostonDMD

What intrigues me more is the power of the internet and how a call was reversed essentially "post mortum" due to the numerous comments from other racers on the NASA and RL forums.......

samluke

+1

I have considerd racing NASA a number of times but have been concerned regarding the apparant level of contact.

I dont care to be bump drafted at the start, or pushed off the track, nor will I do it to anyone who I race with. I don't even expect it or experience it in Chumps. From my experience, racing room is given and contact avoided whenever possible.

I think I will continue with PCA and Chumps.

J richard

Bump drafting is something that gets discussed in the paddock before the race. You either choose to participate or not. Not considered good form to bump draft someone that you haven't discussed it with or has said no. I've even seen stickers on the rear of cars saying "no bump".

That said there's a reason that you see it on the pointy end of the field, it can make a big difference in overall speed. Bump drafting on the straight at Miller was good for 10mph in a spec 944...

The bottom line is I've seen just as much carnage at PCA or SCCA as NASA, it rally depends on the guys you race with more than the org. And it's been discussed many many times that the equality of spec racing leads to closer racing and more nice dental contact. The open groups see far less contact. IMHO....

hf1

It appears that you have misunderstood me. I meant "common sense" in designing and implementing the rules.

I agree that one doesn't have to do something simply because it is "legal" and the white car potentially could have done something to avoid contact but it's not clear from the video that it even expected that the red car would actually go as far as hitting him. Neither would have I -- especially not after running nose to nose with him in the preceding turn just a few seconds ago. When contact became imminent it was probably too late to pull back.

Sterling Doc

Fair enough. I still feel if you could have reasonably avoided contact, you shouldn't be without some culpability. In the end, neither car was, and that is appropriate.

9.5 Degrees

Sorry but you've contradicted yourself in subsequent posts. it IS about the 3/4 rule and how it's being used to not race your opponent, but rather beat them with a rule to back out. In this very instance, the white car was initially penalized because of it. Common sense did prevail and it was overturned as it should have been.

Further, I've been out to NASA events and more specifically your 944 Spec races and it was an absolute crashfest. The racers are good drivers having known them for a while, so it's difficult to tell if it's just a cultural thing with NASA's 944 Spec crowd or the fact that it costs so little to repair these cars, but it's not pretty and some other really good 944 racers will not participate with NASA because of it.

No ax to grind, not racing yet with PCA, POC or NASA, but on my way to building a car and in the meantime looking at who I want to race with.

The 3/4 width instead of full width for 1 inch is just plain ridiculous no matter how you or NASA rationalize it. It's a recipe for contact and shades of gray on determining what was 3/4 at the post race contact meeting with the race stewart.

hf1

I disagree. Of course, it is prudent and advisable to do anything to avoid an incident (contact) but it is up to one's discretion (and ability given the conditions) and should have nothing to do with apportioning culpability if one is 100% in the right according to both the rules and common sense.

I thought some more about this "3/4 width" and "dropping wheels" rule... If I'm on the outside, there is no way I am dropping loaded wheels onto grass/dirt because someone next to me is squeezing me out.

In Skippy race series responsibility for the total damage incurred in an incident (all damaged cars) is apportioned according to fault. I am quite sure that the red car would have been apportioned 100% of the fault and damage liability (up to $6k deductible). He (or his insurance) would have had to pay for the white car's damage too if they both crashed.

Sterling Doc

Any rule can be used as a weapon, as has been brought up here in many threads. As explicitly stated in NASA's CCR rules, the intent is not to empower the lead car to squeeze someone out (especially into a dangerous situation). Make a habit of doing that, and the race directors will act.

I am not defending the red car here, by any means, as I explained many times. The red car driver stated "he [the white car] did not have a right to be there" in his opinion - i.e. no right to any part of the line because he was not up to his door at that point (he was, or course wrong, as well as aggressive). He was not intending to leave 3/4, which is why that rule was not in play in how this scenario developed. Also, neither car was off the racing surface at the point of contact. This contact was about two aggressive, and bull headed drivers, not about exploiting rules.

9.5 degrees, talk to me offline about your experiences. I'm not sure where you are from, but I don't consider what you saw acceptable anywhere, and want to work to address it. I discussed Nationals as an example of how it should (and can) be, and it's also the one event per year that I can have a more direct influence on. Body work is never cheap, especially on a Spec budget. If that culture exists, I will seek to stamp it out.

arrivederci

And as far as consistency goes, red car gives white car plenty of space at the apex of turn 3 whereas he could have commanded the line then too...in a corner no less.

f1rocks

Have you been to a few PCA races that are the same way? I have been hit twice by air cooled cars that had no business being where they were. They got the 13's but my race was still done.

I think the Spec944 group has does a lot to NOT encourage contact. First and foremost they all pit together. They share data, they cookout together, they swap parts, they fix each others cars. They are friends first and foremost. There are a lot of run groups (read the threads on cup cars) that would do better to know who their competitors are in a group setting.

I don't race NASA but I've watched it progress and would certainly consider it sometime in the future.

SeanR

So where is the whiny OP been?

multi21

If tried to not get into this discussion but...

Your statement is what I've experienced. The 944 Spec guys are an incredibly great group of guys and do help out to get everyone on track, share video etc. But what 9.5 degrees stated is also true, there are a lot of good racers that will not race NASA because of the higher incidents of contact.

In Socal there are multiple national and regional championship winners and I've gone side by side with them in rain conditions with no problem, but I was also taken out in my very first race with NASA and the regional race director has had to talk to us on more than one occasion. One weekend alone there were 10 separate incidents of contact. Not fun having to go into the pits and pull fenders out so you can finish the weekend.

If it were me, I'd definitely change the 3/4 rule without question.