MayorAdamWest

Maybe not as a blanket statement ( it wasn't me ) but if you really think someone needs at least 10 events to drive solo, I don't want to be on the same track as that person. That's not to say that everyone can't benefit from more instruction, but I'm not likely to run with a group that forces me to have an instructor for 20 events. I've never heard of that. For many people you're talking about several years of instruction before they can even drive on their own. I think that's asinine.

dasams

On my first outing at Thill and in session 3, the instructor watched me drive and then signed off that I was ok to drive solo in the beginner group. I took them up on that in the 4th session and drove at a comfortable pace that meshed well with the speed of the group.

I have no info but suspect that's why they no longer run at Sears Pt.

I was also well prepared as I had read the track guides and watched videos before my first Sears Pt outing (with instruction). All corners and apexes (central, late, very late) were memorized and I videoed one of my sessions so that I could study it afterward. Before my NASA outing, I again read the track notes, concisely rewrote them in my own words, watched video and again had all corners and apexes memorized (is my engineering background showing?). One thing was clear: I was a lot better prepared than most of the other group 2 drivers that I observed. Dave

mrbill_fl

I know nothing about the west coast organizations, but have been an instructor for over 5 different clubs in SoFla.

hands down, PCA is the best at teaching beginners.

NASA / PBOC are close, but both run races during the weekend. and it takes focus away from the HPDE. -especially when time is needed to be cut from sessions.

Do some PCA events.


-how long does it take to go from green to black again? hmm.

Gary R.

No one is saying there is any "set" number of days before a person can be promoted to solo, to do so would be idiotic. BUT, no one is saying that after X number of days you are automatically ready to run solo. The average person that runs only one or two events a year in our region? It "may" actually be years before he is solo. Or not. Makes no difference to me how many years you have been driving, all that matters is what I see.

Gary R.

I understand, you were signed off for the last run. We don't allow that in green in our region as 90% of the time it's just an instructor trying to bail on his/her student. In your case, 1st day ever on the track, to be signed off says to me he had nothing more to teach you and you were better off alone. Obviously a good instructor.

Mahler9th

"I was a lot better prepared than most of the other group 2 drivers that I observed."

That is really the crux.

I hope you enjoy the GGR event. I really wish I could go. Maybe at the last minute I will convince myself to drive up and try to pitch in.

The CDI is John T. I have known him for many years. He is an excellent instructor and leader. And an excellent driver. He has been campaigning a 996 for years, driving it to the events and then using a good deal of its performance potential with aplomb.

And he has quite a sense of humor and is very creative, helping us all laugh at students who always drive "flat out."

And by the way, I think the GGR would love to have a TT at Sears Point if they could work out the money and schedule issues. Laguna as well.

One other trick:

When you drive with other area groups, you can sometimes "work the network" to get an instructor or coach that is a known commodity. I have worked with specific folks at various DE's in this way. I am sure that some of the currently active GGR instructors do this as well.

Study, study, study. Discuss. Engage. And don't forget to have fun!

996TWINS

+1. Had a guy (new to our group) at Buttonwillow a few years ago in the RED group braking in the straights. He mentioned to the event sponsors we were driving way too fast Yes he got bumped down a notch or two.

When I drive with a new group (HPDE) I always run a group lower than the fastest. Then bump up if it looks okay (safe). Sometimes it is the "Wild West" out there.

Gofishracing

Each group has a slightly different focus. PCA / NASA- I always said it like the difference between Parochial School and Public High school. Some in uniforms- some with piercings.
NASA I feel is moving more toward focusing on racing. With some HPDE only days as well.
PCA , HOD seemed more focused on the DE student. Either way you need to learn to go slow before going fast. Ask for a Coach often and set goals each session. All the groups seem to pull from a core group of Instructors that attend various event.

24Chromium

I did DE with NASA once. Never again, for all the reasons expressed in this thread. And... to be fair, I'd been an instructor for 10 years.

Try some other groups. I also strongly recommend GGR-PCA. I find I much prefer to run in a smaller group with me being at, or nearly as fast as the top guys. It's great to be able to chase someone for a whole session to sort out where you might be loosing time. You should be able to understand if its your line, braking too early, braking too much, not getting on the gas early enough, etc.

And don't ever think you'll go slower with a coach in the car. Their knowledge and input will have you going way faster than you by yourself.

996TWINS

I will backoff on the straights with a lesser HP car in front just to follow them because they showing me either a really good line, braking, etc.

Always looking to learn more.

peterbigblock

I will echo that different DE organizers can (and do) have very different organizing styles and motivations. Some are simply there to put together the track day(s), collect the money, divide drivers into groups according to their claimed experience, and turn them all loose. Many provide instructors, but little or nothing in the way of off-track instruction.

PCA, in my experience, does a great job with the novice in particular, beginning with off-track instruction. If you're simply turned loose on a hot track, even with an instructor, and have not done anything to prepare yourself beforehand, that's sketchy in my opinion. Do you understand what the instructor is saying? Apex? Turn-in? Brake zone? Line? Over- and understeer? What to do in a spin? (This is how a LOT of crashes happen when people overdrive their car and then whipsaw themselves into a wall.) There are a LOT of things to get drilled into your head before you get on a hot track with 15-20 other cars, walls, etc.

I am an advanced driver and I frequently seek out another advanced driver or an instructor to do a ride-along and critique me. Far more often than not, that person makes one or two observations that help me refine my technique or my line. It's not a matter of them being better than me, it's the advantage of having a second set of eyes and a second brain. And, yes, different and/or more experience.

I have often thought to myself that it would be great if there were a standardized set of rules, run group qualifications (and colors, for God's sake!), and expectations between different tracks and DE providers so that you're not going from left arm point-by to no point-by to windows up blinker-by... And some standard instruction in dos and don'ts with some real classroom time before doing hot laps.

Veloce Raptor

+1

Same here.

e9stibi

This is why I like the advanced instructors in the Lonestar PCA events for the higher run groups. They help you to try out some other approaches. I had some great instruction 2 events ago where we focused on gear options. I tended to run in a higher gear (lower RPM) and we worked on running through 5 corners! in a lower gear (higher RPM). The second day I drove with another instructor and changed some of the approaches because I reved out at trackout without any traffic. In the final session I improved my best laptime on TWS by 2.5 seconds. The great take way for me is that I have now much more options when I reach specific track situations / traffic to chose a gear. This at the end makes you a better driver.

KaiB

Who are these mystical figures who can get me 2.5 secs at TWS.

I'll marry one if I have to...Just don't say Globe though!

mglobe

I'll find you 2.5 seconds if you just promise to stay away from me.