The 2013 Formula 1 Pre-Season Thread
03-12-2013, 12:22 AM
#286
And what do you think Senna and Prost were doing when they were qualifying?
Just settling a pre-race bet between them?? All the things you list as considerations were all THE SAME things the McLaren pair were doing in fighting for P1. And they managed to win the race as well...with hours and hours of debriefing after claiming P1 and P2 on the grid.
I think its pretty obvious that the Schumacher fans have a hard time accepting that Schumacher was not a natural at qualifying. People forget that Schumacher was not coming into F1 as the #1 draft pick. As a matter of fact he wasn't even in open wheel before being tapped, all but Jordan had no interest in his pre-F1 qualifying speed and achievements otherwise. His strengths later proved to be many, but qualifying wasn't one of them. Absent the best car on the grid for five consecutive seasons, and perhaps the most supremely dominant series of cars ever to be seen in any formula of racing, Schumacher would not have hit pole #65, certainly not in the blink of an eye that it took Senna. Again, Ayrton equalled the record holder for poles BEFORE getting into the best car.
Also, its very clear that the Schumacher fans think he was doing "magical" things in those massively superior F2000 cars that no other driver short of Senna/Prost/Fangio could have managed. Hardly. Had Mika or Alonso been in those Ferraris they would have been five time champions each. They both won two titles in cars that weren't anywhere on the level of the Brawn Ferraris. And frankly Schumacher in the Mercs, with equal status to Rossberg was pretty underwhelming. Can't blame age because Mansell was winning races in far more physically demanding machinery at nearly age 42.
Just settling a pre-race bet between them?? All the things you list as considerations were all THE SAME things the McLaren pair were doing in fighting for P1. And they managed to win the race as well...with hours and hours of debriefing after claiming P1 and P2 on the grid.
I think its pretty obvious that the Schumacher fans have a hard time accepting that Schumacher was not a natural at qualifying. People forget that Schumacher was not coming into F1 as the #1 draft pick. As a matter of fact he wasn't even in open wheel before being tapped, all but Jordan had no interest in his pre-F1 qualifying speed and achievements otherwise. His strengths later proved to be many, but qualifying wasn't one of them. Absent the best car on the grid for five consecutive seasons, and perhaps the most supremely dominant series of cars ever to be seen in any formula of racing, Schumacher would not have hit pole #65, certainly not in the blink of an eye that it took Senna. Again, Ayrton equalled the record holder for poles BEFORE getting into the best car.
Also, its very clear that the Schumacher fans think he was doing "magical" things in those massively superior F2000 cars that no other driver short of Senna/Prost/Fangio could have managed. Hardly. Had Mika or Alonso been in those Ferraris they would have been five time champions each. They both won two titles in cars that weren't anywhere on the level of the Brawn Ferraris. And frankly Schumacher in the Mercs, with equal status to Rossberg was pretty underwhelming. Can't blame age because Mansell was winning races in far more physically demanding machinery at nearly age 42.
How do you know what those others would have done in Schumi's car? He formed that team around him and his style. If you didn't know, he liked a twitchy car, a car most others did not like.
To compare two old men (Schumi and Mansell) is equally ridiculous. Different times, different machinery, different competition.
03-12-2013, 12:37 PM
#287
Saying pole position is unimportant in Formula 1, is almost comical. For a fan it may be unimportant, although such an attitude would certainly put you in the minority, but to the drivers it's huge. It's one of those career stats that is very much part of a driver's legendary status in the sport. Driver's don't care about how many consecutive races a racer went without a retirement or how many times they had fastest lap. They care about poles, podiums, wins and titles. If it was so inconsequential as you imply, then Schumacher wouldn't have broken down into uncontrolled sobbing during the press conference when he finally broke Senna's record of poles. He'd broken many other of Senna's records before, without showing even a flash of emotion. Guess Schumacher thought poles were important eh?
Pole position is important to a driver because its the domain of champions. It shows that the driver was untouchable when he had the best car. And if he steals pole away from the guy with the best car, then that's even more valueable to the driver.
Pole position is important to a driver because its the domain of champions. It shows that the driver was untouchable when he had the best car. And if he steals pole away from the guy with the best car, then that's even more valueable to the driver.
03-12-2013, 12:42 PM
#288
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Saying pole position is unimportant in Formula 1, is almost comical. For a fan it may be unimportant, although such an attitude would certainly put you in the minority, but to the drivers it's huge. It's one of those career stats that is very much part of a driver's legendary status in the sport. Driver's don't care about how many consecutive races a racer went without a retirement or how many times they had fastest lap. They care about poles, podiums, wins and titles. If it was so inconsequential as you imply, then Schumacher wouldn't have brokend down into uncontrolled sobbing during the press conference when he finally broke Senna's record of poles. He'd broken many other of his records before, without showing even a flash of emotion. Pole position is important because its the domain of champions not journeymen and pay drivers.
That being said, I did enjoy seeing him set pole (albeit with a previous race penalty to be applied) in Monaco last year.
03-12-2013, 12:55 PM
#290
Rennlist Member
I used to feel that a point for pole was not necessary since one used to never be able to pass, but with the 2009 wing changes, the gummybear tyres and DRS last season showed that pole is no longer a guarantee. I don't doubt that drivers really go for it to get the pole even though it is not the guarantee of a win that it used to seem to be, so I'm more open to the idea of awarding a point for it.
03-12-2013, 12:58 PM
#291
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I agree. 1 point for pole would certainly put more excitment on qualifying.
There is a reason a race win is worth 25 pts., even back a few years it was 10 pts. Qualifying not so much. Not saying it's not important, but you guys are overvaluing it except at street courses where it makes a HUGE difference.
There is a reason a race win is worth 25 pts., even back a few years it was 10 pts. Qualifying not so much. Not saying it's not important, but you guys are overvaluing it except at street courses where it makes a HUGE difference.
03-12-2013, 08:03 PM
#292
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I believe that pole position is important for all the reasons outlined in this thread, but it also gives the drivers confidence that they can go faster then the other drivers
03-13-2013, 01:54 AM
#293
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03-13-2013, 02:52 PM
#294
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Looks like tire management is going to be a major variable again in 2013:
http://www.formula1.com/news/intervi...3/3/14308.html
http://www.formula1.com/news/intervi...3/3/14308.html
Last edited by Nizer; 03-13-2013 at 04:19 PM.
03-18-2013, 02:45 PM
#296
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Last year we saw drivers deliberately limit their Q3 runs on several occaisions, to improve their tire situation for the race, as the marginal benefit of a higher qualifying slot became less than that afforded by a set of fresher tires.
Based on what was seen this past weekend, we might see more of that at some 2013 races. For that reason, awarding a point (or two) the top driver (to top two) would be a good move, as it would encourage the no-holds barred qualifying wars.
Based on what was seen this past weekend, we might see more of that at some 2013 races. For that reason, awarding a point (or two) the top driver (to top two) would be a good move, as it would encourage the no-holds barred qualifying wars.
03-19-2013, 10:10 AM
#298
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Niki Lauda is a moron
http://planetf1.com/driver/18227/857...entally-wrong-
If he were to get his way and Pirelli produced the type of tyre that they produced at the end of the 2012 season, it would be another Red Bull/Vettel runaway. That would be bad for his team (AMG Mercedes) and bad for F1 regarding dwindling viewer interest. After FP1 and FP2, I was resigned to it being a Vettel runaway year. Thank GOD for Pirelli and the FIA mandating tyres that spice up the show, if a fan cannot understand that then let them follow NASCAR.
http://planetf1.com/driver/18227/857...entally-wrong-
If he were to get his way and Pirelli produced the type of tyre that they produced at the end of the 2012 season, it would be another Red Bull/Vettel runaway. That would be bad for his team (AMG Mercedes) and bad for F1 regarding dwindling viewer interest. After FP1 and FP2, I was resigned to it being a Vettel runaway year. Thank GOD for Pirelli and the FIA mandating tyres that spice up the show, if a fan cannot understand that then let them follow NASCAR.
