multi21

Who needs 2nd tier teammates when you have the FIA in your pocket?

Bob Rouleau

I mentioned the book "No Angel" which is all about Bernie. The special relationship with Ferrari is but one of the many things explained in the book. Fascinating for the F1 fan.

its about time...

Prost was a master of political intrigue (the only way he could handle Senna) and did his own share of whining. After all, Enzo threw him off the team for dissing the car. He had an amazing touch for preserving his tire life (before pitstops and planned tire degradation) to compete at the end of the race. But unlike Senna, Alonso and Schumacher, Prost was not known for getting wins in cars no one thought competitive.

There's no denying Prost is a 4x champion and I liked him, but IMHO he is 2nd tier as champions go.

perfectlap

When did Alonso have a win in a car that was not competitive?

Alonso has mostly had cars capable of winning races which is the definition of 'competitive'.
Were FA's race-winning cars always the best of the field in the year that they won? No.
But by that definition Prost very much had wins in the Barnard Ferrari which was NOT the best car of that season. It Had superior aero but didn't have Honda's power. And not only was Prost competitive, he came within one race (or perhaps even a corner) from delivering for Ferrari its first WDC since Jody Sheckter in 1979.

As for Schumacher, I don't think he's any different than Alonso in this regard.
The Ferraris were not the class of the field when he first joined but they were certainly winning races before he arrived, something the mid and low tier teams could only dream of. The red cars were still capable of winning races whence he joined and on reliability there wasn't nearly the chasm between his red car and Mika's when Hakkinen was winning his two titles. When Schumacher had the best car of the field it was a drastically different level of superiority over the McLarens. Those early Ferraris had the pace they just needed Brawn to make them durable.
And the Schumacher Benetton cars were bullet proof and chock full of illegal additions, not my words just the FIA investigator's.

morganabowen

Excellent question

9.5 Degrees

Totally agree with everything you said. The car Alonso was given last year was a total dog, probably the 7th best car after both Red Bulls, both McLaren's and both Lotus cars. The only difference was that Grojean crashed too many times to be a threat for points and Hamilton either retired because of mechanicals, crashed or was crashed out by others. The only reason Alonso was alive at the end of the year for the title was because of his unbelievable driving ability to bring a car, in this case, a Ferrari that was more reliable than fast.

It's hard to say that a 4 time WDC is a 2nd tier champion, but if there was a case to be made, it was Prost who was in his fair share of great cars coupled with political favoritism that may have padded that 4x WDC. Certainly not in the conversation of Senna/Schumacher.

perfectlap

right...because Schumacher had the level of team mates that Prost had.

This was the likelyhood of Schumacher ever in his career asking someone as fast
as Senna to join him in the same car: 0

This was the likelyhood of Schumacher ever in his career asking someone even only as fast
as himself to join him in the same car: 0

Prost's car control was on another level to Schumacher's. Nigel Robebuck astutely pointed out that no mater in practice, qualifying or race, in 13 seasons he could count the number of times he saw Prost lose control of the car with the fingers of one hand. Those were cars that demanded 1000% concentration or it was death.

And Prost's nerve under pressure was never so openly mocked as Schumahcher's (Jerez, Adelaide, Monaco parking job, etc.).

Let's talk about qualifying speed. Do you know who shared the record for Poles with Jim Clark before Senna claimed it? Prost. Do you have any idea of the level of competition and talent from 1980-1992, that Prost managed to pull off the feat of equalling Clark?
And despite having the fastest car on the grid for five consecutive years, how long after both Senna and Prost were out of racing altogether did it take Schumacher to become the all time pole leader? Very long time. Montoya, in only his 2nd F1 season stole 7 poles from him in a single season by a reported average of less than 0.10 of a second in an equal to slightly slower car. Montoya would not have stolen 7 poles from either Prost or Senna. Certainly not Senna. And mind you Senna beat both Prost and Clark for career poles BEFORE he stepped into the best car on the grid.

p.s.
Prost was "only" a 4X's champion because the old points system denied what today would have been a fifth WDC's.

The only way Schumacher gets more than 4 championships is with Barichello, Irvine, Verstapen, Herbert, etc...as "pull over for me at Austria" type team mates.

Put Mika Hakkinen in the other Ferrari and Benetton cars for at least five of Schumacher's championship seasons and Schumacher's not a 7x's champion, nor 6x's nor 5'x champion. And don't forget to wake me when Alonso is a 4'x champion. What Prost was able to achieve in THAT era of racing, against team mates of THAT caliber is staggering. Those who watched Senna and Prost race together really did see something that may never be duplicated ever again. Certainly not in the "me only" teams of Alonso and Schumacher.

ltc

Any teammate can lift/pullover and let their teammate pass ....

Now, find me a teammate who will actually crash for you in a race...and practice the move in free practice before the race just to make sure he has it down correctly.....

Wait, it's been done already?
Never mind.

multi21

Last time I looked there were no WDC won during qualifying. Most race wins? 91. Guess who? Most WDC? Guess who....

What's next. This was too easy....

DB_NC_95C2

that's why he's driving "trucks"

DB_NC_95C2

oh I'm impressed

with Senna dead

with a punt to take Hill out

with an illegal Benetton

with teammates that roll over and die

Adelaide '94, Jerez '97, Rascasse '06... what a charming guy

good riddance Spoonface, I celebrated when he retired the first time, glad to see the back of him again

gums

late to the party here, but I echo that I won't be missing Schublocker either, as much as I always root for Ferrari. Didn't even like him when he was around, and I was glad to see vindication at his failed unretirement effort.

Chads996

Let's talk Merc. I have a feeling they are up to something. Way too much chatter of "...no, no, we're not fast. Noooooo. Don't expect us to be up in front."

Me thinks Mr. Brawn and Co. have something up their sleeve. If I recall, when Brawn had his own team a very similar scenario played out.

Thoughts?

C.

DB_NC_95C2

I don't know if it's something as significant as a double diffuser but I have to believe their efforts from mid-2012 forward have certainly started to pay off.
I would be surprised if it's something 'up their sleeve' that if and when becomes known everyone rushes to copy it or protest it.

Both drivers are seriously quick when the car is right (two examples, Lewis in Austin and Nico in China).... I'm hoping the car is VERY right, anything that spices up the show and decreases Red Bull's dominance makes me happy.

I have not been Lewis's biggest fan over his career but I want to see both he and Nico do well (I'll still be rooting more for Nico though, I like his heads-down ethic and the fact that you don't see quotes on the web from him every day like Lewis and Fernando and Vettel, etc etc etc)

Nizer

No comment.

Queue The Iceman....

10 days to go.