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Old 08-08-2012 | 04:38 PM
  #31  
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Swing and a miss. Paul, the point is that you're not supposed to be timing these events. Jay, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the clubs insurance doesn't permit it.
Old 08-08-2012 | 04:38 PM
  #32  
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Paul, you're not "stuck solo".

Get an instructor in your right seat, one who's good with advanced students and ask him to repeat the mantra "throttle-unwind, throttle-unwind throttle-unwind" to you at each and every corner.

No need to overthink this at this point.
Old 08-08-2012 | 04:39 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by John D.
Brian A. said it for the rest of us..!!! However, in private - I mostly missed Irene, 'cause she's nicer to me...



Best to you!

John D.
She's nice to me too. It don't mean nothin.
Old 08-08-2012 | 04:42 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by morsini
Swing and a miss. Paul, the point is that you're not supposed to be timing these events. Jay, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the clubs insurance doesn't permit it.
Personal timers are allowed. However instructed drivers should be more focused on listening to their instructor and getting as much seat time as possible.
Old 08-08-2012 | 04:54 PM
  #35  
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I'm sorry, Paul - but, I will be the first to call "bullsh1t" on your post...

Had you done two very important things first - you wouldn't have posted your post..

First, you would have attended the drivers meeting - which I believe you did; but -

Second - you would have paid attention - which you certainly did not.

Had you been paying attention - you would have listened to my update on the "Instructor at Large" program I began during our previous/first event this year. These are Instructors who have no assigned students in yellow or green - BUT, ARE AVAILABLE TO ANY BLUE, WHITE and BLACK drivers. Those are "their students".

From this event ALONE - these folks worked with over 20 Blue/White/Black students - and gave them feedback. They also appraise Judy and I who they work with and detail what the student was told and what were set for goals.

My response to you - or any solo students is - instead of asking for a check-out ride - ask for an instructor. This is EDUCATION, not racing - and if you want to learn to be a better driver, lose the timers and gain an instructor.

But - you are so off base, specifically for our region - that solo students are set adrift - that I'll call you in public on the bullsh1t you are spewing.

And BTW? those instructors who I do assign Yellow/Green students to? Often times they have to deal with TWO students and check-out rides - just to accommodate the solo groups having dedicated instructors.

Next time - pay attention during the drivers meeting.

John D.

Originally Posted by utkinpol
you should probably go into gt3 forum with this, Jay, I am not the best audience. there are other people obsessed with this, i am not one of them.

I use lap times only as one of many other criterias and for me it is not the goal and never was. it just separates some issues from other issues and if that would make question easier i could ask it differently providing specific lateral g force amount in the specific corner but it is easier to look at the video of a properly executed lap with otherall faster speeds on same rubber and similar enough car corner weights and adjust your mistakes than to have too many technical details thrown into the conversation as then it will be all about details and will end there. and if you did not note before - i am an engineer, i am extremely technical about anything, and, well, it shows in how i learn and how i adjust. those who are more 'artistic' may do it differently, i do it how it works for me best.
Old 08-08-2012 | 06:25 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by utkinpol
you are instructors, so it is your pain in the butt to think about this. people have no better criterias to use than simple comparison of lap times as they have no other ways to think about their driving. ...
Earlier - I didn't post this. I was trying to be kind to you, Paul. I had some terse words for you when you requested a check-out ride. I stand by those. You see - I'm pretty sure I know who my students are - and I'm damn confident in my instructors.

But - as for your excuses for using a lap timer rather than an instructor? Bullsh1t again. That it's the ONLY resource you have to make you a "better" driver? Horse-hockey. That a timer makes you a better driver or you paid attention from the drivers meeting?

What do I mean? I mean this....

Entering Pit Lane to stage for entering the track is optional. This is called the Pit Lane ENTRANCE.

Exiting Pit Line, when pitting in - is called the EXIT. That's MANDATORY if you've taken the ENTRANCE and have now run the track.

Your problem is - you were so BUSY looking at your timer and lap times - YOU EXITED through the ENTRANCE. Thank GAWD I didn't see you do it when it happened...

This is from YOUR OWN VIDEO:

Paul has just pitted - and coming down pit lane. The EXIT is about 50' to the left. Notice what you are looking at?? It's NOT the exit - it's your damn lap timer:



Three second later (16:54:25)- now - you are cycling your lap times. the EXIT is NOW on your IMMEDIATE left, but, you wouldn't know - your cycling your silly lap times on your timer...



The AAAHHHHAAA Moment... Instead of stopping - IN CASE there is another RUN GROUP staging - five seconds LATER @ 16:54:30 - you EXIT through the ENTRY:



Just be be sure I'm not making this up - here is your camera view only FOUR seconds later:



If you ever run with my region again - you will have no timer in your car. It will be removed should you want to get on the track. And I will be the one to remove it...

As an alternative, however?

You will have an instructor. And I can tell you - you should be very afraid if that instructor is me.


Have a great day,

John D.
Old 08-08-2012 | 06:31 PM
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WOW
Old 08-08-2012 | 06:56 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by John D.
If you ever run with my region again - you will have no timer in your car.
John D.
you are right. that was bad. totally my fault. nothing to add there.

I probably want to add that it was first time when entire track layout of entering and existing was changed from what it always was, that we were told to run around paddock clockwise instead of counterclockwise and got different entrances/exits from it always was and the way how cones were setup did not stop me somehow from making this mistake, but it all does not change the fact the mistake was made and i apparently did not even react to that.

i am thankful you have looked at the video and took your time to find this incident, i will definitely be more careful with this as I obviously paid less attention than needed, and you are 100% right about it, nothing to add.

as of 'if you want to run with us again', etc. - again, it is your garden, your rules, I sent you a PM about it earlier.
Old 08-08-2012 | 06:57 PM
  #39  
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Oh, my! Probably for the best.

And John, I completely agree with the 'instructor is better than timer' mantra. A time can't tell you how the car feels, unless it's a really high time, because you did half the lap on a flat bed.

To the OP: don't get bogged down in this stuff. It sounds like you went to a great event. You'll be pushing yourself to work harder next time, so make sure to stay properly fed and hydrated. And have fun!
Old 08-08-2012 | 07:06 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by utkinpol
you are ...as of 'if you want to run with us again', etc. - again, it is your garden, your rules, I sent you a PM about it earlier.
You did, and I read it. And - as noted back to you, I respect your view.

But - (there is always a BUT..??)

If you don't like me - or my "garden" - that's just fine. You see, you don't have to ask me personally for an instructor - just ask any of my Instructors at Large for that day. They will tell me - and that's fine, too...

Paul - I said this in person to you at the track and I'll say it in public to you...

You need to lose the attitude - and just ask to be taught. That "teaching" doesn't come from a lap timer. That "education" comes from "seat time". You can - and I suspect - can be a good driver. I know, too - you can be a better driver.

You see? I've been there. Done that. I know where you are coming from - BUT....

To be "better" - you need to know and accept how much more you have to learn. And that's OK too. You just need to accept that, even though you are running Blue (solo) today, and running well - if you want to advance, a "timer" only "measures". Yet..

An instructor teaches....

It's your "fork in the road" and "your path to choose". If you choose to learn, we'll be there.

If not? Well - that's your choice as well, I guess..

Best to you,

John
Old 08-08-2012 | 07:22 PM
  #41  
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At this event there were no people free with whom I usually drive and whom I know well, that`s all. you look for some big ideas behind it while in reality it all is way much simpler and much less dramatic.
I looked it up in my book by the way, i have done 25 events at NHMS alone and 23 of them were with somebody instructing. So, this one was an exception, not a rule.

Like I said before you are fighting windmills here, and if you think I am substituting an instruction with a timer, it is just an odd idea. Instruction is irreplacable and this is nothing even to talk about, but, as I said before - you are not talking to me here, you do talk to the public and it is fine too. Am I going to take hardwired timer off? Of course not. But i will definitely stop checking lap times in the pits and if that was the only instruction i was supposed to get from this event I guess it was a pretty good one too as if I did do such a stupid mistake i see no shame to acknowledge that in public. it was indeed pretty stupid.
Old 08-08-2012 | 07:33 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by jhg41977
John, I thought that was your car (your avatar gave it away). .....
Shoot - I really should change my Avatar!!! I'm working on NOT driving my 993 C4 and getting....(guess what??!! )??? BUT!!!! I need to convince Jen first, though!!!



Originally Posted by utkinpol
At this event (HUGE SNIP..) pretty stupid.
Whatever.

John D.
Old 08-08-2012 | 10:24 PM
  #43  
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[QUOTE=John D.;9750769]Shoot - I really should change my Avatar!!! I'm working on NOT driving my 993 C4 and getting....(guess what??!! )??? BUT!!!! I need to convince Jen first, though!

I actually meant John (Jake951). But I thought I saw a 95 993 in white as well. Was it yours JohnD?

Thanks for the rec on hotels, off to check them out now.
Old 08-08-2012 | 10:25 PM
  #44  
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YES!!! That old girl (the white 993 C4) is MINE dang it!!!



John D.
Old 08-09-2012 | 04:35 PM
  #45  
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Paul -

Not to belabor the point and you tried to be polite and contrite in response to what could have been a disaster. But....

The most useful part of data acquisition (and think I know what you are now using) isn't the lap times. Its the off track data analysis. AIM (which I think you have now?) and Traqmate provide incredible detail to help you understand what you are doing and where opportunities lie.

You can look at lap times, but never learn as much as you will from the detailed data.

Sure: I sometimes look at lap times. I'm human, but my competition is me... I don't ask and try not to tell. I often dial back in places while working on some aspect of my driving so times aren't useful. And I might not even look until that evening - unless I am racing.

You are an engineer: You know its the detailed data and not the lap time totals that is really useful. Its the data that allows you to examine what you are doing corner by corner, segment by segment and in general. You also have TPS which will be useful for you. (Your TPS graphics are screwy though)

And Below is the only reason I am writing this here and not sending you a PM:

Important : DO NOT play with little buttons like DA or camera while driving (other than radio). Not even in the paddock - because even there, especially there, you can hit someone while you or they are not paying attention or worse still hit someone's child. Turn it on when you are stopped. Turn it off when you are stopped. If you forget to turn it on.. Too bad.. Turn it on the next session. Don't even look at anything until you have stopped.

I'm an engineer too with 25 years of experience. I think I understand what you mean about learning style. Please lets take this offline and avoid a flame war. Whats done is done. PM me and I will be happy to exchange emails or chat on the phone.


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