FredC

Vicki nailed me with a 1 lap penalty at Road America 2 years ago for blocking. She said that any maneuver aiming to impede the progress of another racer was blocking. My 1 move explanation didn't fly. This said, I definitely visibly impeded the progress of the other racer at the time. In the case of this video, 12 slowly moving to the inside down the front stretch in the lap before last might be what a corner worker called in. But if I were 12, I'd be upset to have been called in because 12 probably never thought he would be called in, not thinking he was doing anything wrong.

Lemming

PCA should start mandating the use of pointby's and lifting in the straights to help the person behind you pass

38D

(My own opinion below, not PCAs)
Both videos show a car driving down the wrong side of the straight from basically pit-in to T1. Regardless of if its blocking, it is unsportsmanlike. i think this is probably ok on lap 1, but that's about it. If you have to drive down the wrong side of the straight to keep a car behind you, then they are faster and you're being a dick. And yes, I have done it before, but that doesn't make it right.

This video below is I how I aspire to drive every race. The car in front (the pesky Mr. Jenks) drives the straight normally, and uses better entry speed to keep me behind. This is good sportsmanship and was a ton of fun for both of us.

Sean F

A couple of years ago at LRP the stewards talked to me about "blocking" into T1. But, they talked to me after the race. I disagreed with them then and I still do, but they didn't wreck my race or the guy trying to pass me (which he eventually did) by black flagging me. The guy I was racing with in class thought it was completely ok and after he passed me (outside in T1) he took the same "blocking" line I had been using into T1.

Was there some kind of new directive from national for LRP this year?

And I completely agree we need these rules to be clarified in writing as has been discussed for many years

jakermc

[QUOTE=FredC;9491557]Vicki nailed me with a 1 lap penalty at Road America 2 years ago for blocking. She said that any maneuver aiming to impede the progress of another racer was blocking. My 1 move explanation didn't fly. QUOTE]

This is how it was explained to me in my PCA rookie meeting years ago. I then asked about what constitutes a defensive line and got a garbled response that I did not understand. This was after racing NASA for a couple of years where I had a clear understanding of the rules.

My current take is that the letter of the law in PCA does not allow for a defensive line to be driven. I think this definition is rarely enforced as I've seen lots of defensive lines, but it could be at any time as it was here.

In the video I saw no blocking other than the PCA definition which is BS. The real proof is that the car behind did not feel he was being blocked!

gums

Give me a break. I've never subscribed to that "one move" idiocy. If you impede a passing car, you're blocking. Simple as that.
I'll agree that Denny is a good guy and a very fair competitor, but I'm surprised at him for this. Why not just hold a flag out; "I know you're faster but I'm still going to get in your way". I have to agree with 32D on this one (who can argue with an avatar like that?):

Black flag may have been harsh, but was he ignoring blues?

MarkM

Brian H discussed this at the orientation meeting for the Road Atlanta Race, but I can't remember what he said. If anyone is worried about this going forward, you should go to the meeting and ask about it.

Nothing I saw in these videos looks like blocking.

It is an interesting perspective that driving defensive lines are unsportsmanlike. Racing is not DE and a big part of racing is the skill of the driver. Clearly if a car is in front of you they deserve to be there. They also deserve the right to make you work to get around them.

If the fastest car is always supposed to win then why do we hold a race?

Streak

+1

It makes no difference who is faster. Defending is slower. Defending is part of racing. Racing is not DE.

Two guys fighting for position are going to be slower than one guy who is just out running laps. The guy in front is going to be taking some different lines to keep his position which will be slower. Maybe he is faster? Maybe his tires are hot and he's losing grip? Maybe there is a section of the track that the guy behind him is faster?

Making the pass is part of racecraft. If you can't make the pass you don't win. Setting someone up corner after corner or waiting for that one mistake is part of racing.

Otherwise we give point bys and we're in an expensive DE.

Sterling Doc

Well, just by being there you're impeding my progress. It'd be easier to get around you if you just pulled over. After all, I'm faster than you are since I caught you.

A blue flag does not apply to an in class fight for position.

-------------------------------------
Defensive driving like that doesn't hold an experienced racer very long. If you predictably ruin your line out of most every corner, or the same corner every time, there are ways your competitor can alter their line, and make a clean pass. Leave a little room going into a corner, and make a nice late apex or under/over move, and drive by him on the exit. The other video posted shows a great example of that. Analyze what they are doing, adjust your line, get the timing right, and pass him anyway - it's very satisfying. That sort of chess game is what makes racing interesting. Sometimes you have to adapt your strategy to you competitors. Doing the mental game better than the others is part of the fun. Balancing making a pass difficult, with minimizing the lost speed that results, and where you can get away with overslowing is a skill,and an art all it's own. There are also the times that I know I've been "outplayed" if not strictly outdriven. I cuss a little, smile in grudging respect, and then take my hat off to my competitor. I make sure I learn something from it all. Out of class is a whole 'nother matter, because you are not racing against them, and it's stupid to negatively affect your lap times/ race, and another's race, as well.

Astroman

A blue flag does not direct you to do anything but check your mirrors. It's not a "let the car behind you pass" flag.

On a side note, I find it a little distracting when two cars are battling nose-to-tail lap after lap and the flagger continues to show the lead car the blue flag... lap after lap. Yes, believe me, I know there is a car behind me.

M758

Umm I call that racing. Racing is not just about having a fast car and turning a fast lap, but about car positioning. It is thing of beauty to see a "slower" car successfully hold off a faster car not by blocking then, but by position thier car so the trailing car has drive off line and around to make pass. If they can pass off line or around the outside they have earned the pass. I learned all about this 10 years ago in my 3rd race.

I qualifyed on class pole, but was new to racing. The guy on my outside was a verteran racer abiet a bit slower on pace. Drop of the green he got the jump on me and got in front. I did not worry as I felt I had pace on him. Well he just defeneded on the inside of turn 1 and 2 on every lap of the race. He took away the only place I knew how to pass. Sure it slowed him down, but by holding the tight inside line he had the superior position to me. I stayed behind him the entire race and learned very valuable lesson. That was car positoning is the key to racing.

When I race today I expect people to defend and defend hard and my job a trailing car is to kept trying different things until either they make driving mistake and lose momenutm or make tactical error that allows me to gain the edge.

The last race I won I did a little progress impeding mid corner. The lead car slowed for standing yellow on the edge of the off track (outside a 3rd gear left) that had been there for 5-6 laps. He had sort of forgotten it was there and when he saw it overslowed a bit. I knew it was there and adjusted my line to pass by safely, but minimize any momentum loss. Well right after this location was tight left turn (2nd gear) and his slow entry allowed me catch him right at the brake zone. I when side by side in the braking zone with me on the inside. I had the edge on the way into the corner, but I would have a slower exit. Since this lead to the longest straight on the track the other guy square off the corner and try to out drag me do the straight and into the next turn (ie over/under move). So to prevent that I overslowed bit right at mid corner forcing him to slow to down to my mid corner speed. This then prevented him from cutting in behind me with more momentum and forced us both to accelerate at the same speed with him needing to wait for me to clear. This allowed me to hold my edge down the straight into the next braking zone and since this was on the last lap hold off for the win.

winders

Wrong side of the straight? This is a race, not a DE or Time Trial. There is no "right side", "wrong side", "right line", or "wrong line" when racing.

If PCA Club Racing equates impeding momentum to blocking, it's not really racing anymore. What a joke.

Scott

multi21

Isnt racing competition? I liken it to chess at 100mph. If there is a better chess player should I just let him win or try my darnest to make moves within the rules including defending to not allow him to win.

Conversely if I'm the better chess player or race car driver I don't want the other guy to lay down and let me win or go by. That's boring. If I'm truly better, I should be able to find a way around or at least along side to slow down the other guy or influence his line to my advantage. To me this is the essence of racing that makes it appealing.

Astroman

Many times I have seen someone's allowed "one move" cause me to have to back way off the throttle and lose momentum (and the pass)... for fear that the car was going to drift over and hit me (or put me in the grass) as I tried to pass them. In fact, it happened several times at the Road Atlanta race with a particular driver. I could make a compilation video out of it.

So I don't think the definition of "blocking" can ONLY be "more than one move." Sometimes that one move is blatantly a block. But other times it's a tough call (as this thread proves), and I don't envy the stewards.

I'm glad that PCA is trying to crack down on bad driving. I just don't think that these LRP videos show examples of that. I would rather see PCA crack down on over-aggressive driving (which I have also seen a lot of lately).

f1rocks

I remember a certain Mario Andretti complaining how he was always the fastest on track and everyone should just let him by......that's why I loved it when he broke a lot.