NASA - PRC - GTS- x rules NORCAL - question
03-20-2012, 07:36 PM
#16
Three Wheelin'
Hey Mark:
Again, please note that the Porsche Racing Challenge Series rules can be found on the PRC and NASA web sites. Please note that they refer to both the NASA Club Codes and Regulations (CCR) and the PCA Club Racing Rules. So you will need to access all three documents for proper guidance. Be sure to carefully review the entire Porsche Racing Challenge Series rules, including the Appendix called "Guidelines for Racing." This Appendix governs behavior we expect from our racers, and differs from material found in SCCA, NASA CCR, PCA and other group's rules.
Regarding NASA/PRC requirements for head restraint/side impact, you will find language in the NASA CCR section 15. Basically, you will need a restraint system/net if your seat doesn't have a provision for head restraint. If you do need one, you can get an idea of how folks have mounted these things up by visiting one of our events, or perhaps by taking a peek at a few cars at a nearby shop.
The 2012 Porsche Racing Challenge Series rules are based on and refer to the 2012 PCA car classification structure, so you class your car based on that. We do not distinguish between full slick tires and DOT-compliant tires so you may want to take that into account.
My guess is that based on its modifications, engine displacement and type, and likely weight, your car will be in a GT class, perhaps GT2 or GT3.
You will likely need a log book and an annual tech. I suggest JWE or TC Design Fab if they are still doing tech work. They are both familiar with Porsches and our rule set. JWE is probably closest to where you live and would be an excellent choice. I was there when they teched Scott's car, and Rich did an excellent and thorough job.
Cheers,
MM
Again, please note that the Porsche Racing Challenge Series rules can be found on the PRC and NASA web sites. Please note that they refer to both the NASA Club Codes and Regulations (CCR) and the PCA Club Racing Rules. So you will need to access all three documents for proper guidance. Be sure to carefully review the entire Porsche Racing Challenge Series rules, including the Appendix called "Guidelines for Racing." This Appendix governs behavior we expect from our racers, and differs from material found in SCCA, NASA CCR, PCA and other group's rules.
Regarding NASA/PRC requirements for head restraint/side impact, you will find language in the NASA CCR section 15. Basically, you will need a restraint system/net if your seat doesn't have a provision for head restraint. If you do need one, you can get an idea of how folks have mounted these things up by visiting one of our events, or perhaps by taking a peek at a few cars at a nearby shop.
The 2012 Porsche Racing Challenge Series rules are based on and refer to the 2012 PCA car classification structure, so you class your car based on that. We do not distinguish between full slick tires and DOT-compliant tires so you may want to take that into account.
My guess is that based on its modifications, engine displacement and type, and likely weight, your car will be in a GT class, perhaps GT2 or GT3.
You will likely need a log book and an annual tech. I suggest JWE or TC Design Fab if they are still doing tech work. They are both familiar with Porsches and our rule set. JWE is probably closest to where you live and would be an excellent choice. I was there when they teched Scott's car, and Rich did an excellent and thorough job.
Cheers,
MM
03-20-2012, 07:58 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Hey Mark:
Again, please note that the Porsche Racing Challenge Series rules can be found on the PRC and NASA web sites. Please note that they refer to both the NASA Club Codes and Regulations (CCR) and the PCA Club Racing Rules. So you will need to access all three documents for proper guidance. Be sure to carefully review the entire Porsche Racing Challenge Series rules, including the Appendix called "Guidelines for Racing." This Appendix governs behavior we expect from our racers, and differs from material found in SCCA, NASA CCR, PCA and other group's rules.
Regarding NASA/PRC requirements for head restraint/side impact, you will find language in the NASA CCR section 15. Basically, you will need a restraint system/net if your seat doesn't have a provision for head restraint. If you do need one, you can get an idea of how folks have mounted these things up by visiting one of our events, or perhaps by taking a peek at a few cars at a nearby shop.
The 2012 Porsche Racing Challenge Series rules are based on and refer to the 2012 PCA car classification structure, so you class your car based on that. We do not distinguish between full slick tires and DOT-compliant tires so you may want to take that into account.
My guess is that based on its modifications, engine displacement and type, and likely weight, your car will be in a GT class, perhaps GT2 or GT3.
You will likely need a log book and an annual tech. I suggest JWE or TC Design Fab if they are still doing tech work. They are both familiar with Porsches and our rule set. JWE is probably closest to where you live and would be an excellent choice. I was there when they teched Scott's car, and Rich did an excellent and thorough job.
Cheers,
MM
Again, please note that the Porsche Racing Challenge Series rules can be found on the PRC and NASA web sites. Please note that they refer to both the NASA Club Codes and Regulations (CCR) and the PCA Club Racing Rules. So you will need to access all three documents for proper guidance. Be sure to carefully review the entire Porsche Racing Challenge Series rules, including the Appendix called "Guidelines for Racing." This Appendix governs behavior we expect from our racers, and differs from material found in SCCA, NASA CCR, PCA and other group's rules.
Regarding NASA/PRC requirements for head restraint/side impact, you will find language in the NASA CCR section 15. Basically, you will need a restraint system/net if your seat doesn't have a provision for head restraint. If you do need one, you can get an idea of how folks have mounted these things up by visiting one of our events, or perhaps by taking a peek at a few cars at a nearby shop.
The 2012 Porsche Racing Challenge Series rules are based on and refer to the 2012 PCA car classification structure, so you class your car based on that. We do not distinguish between full slick tires and DOT-compliant tires so you may want to take that into account.
My guess is that based on its modifications, engine displacement and type, and likely weight, your car will be in a GT class, perhaps GT2 or GT3.
You will likely need a log book and an annual tech. I suggest JWE or TC Design Fab if they are still doing tech work. They are both familiar with Porsches and our rule set. JWE is probably closest to where you live and would be an excellent choice. I was there when they teched Scott's car, and Rich did an excellent and thorough job.
Cheers,
MM
thanks,
Mark
You are not my worries Mark, never have been, Darwinism will prevail at the rate you are going.
I do seriously worry about the newer readers of Rennlist that might see your 19,000 posts and actually think you might have a clue of what you are doing.
That is the only reason I ever post to your absurdly silly continuous banter anymore, it's not really for you, I thought you knew that, I post for the other readers knowledge.
Glad we cleared that up.
I do seriously worry about the newer readers of Rennlist that might see your 19,000 posts and actually think you might have a clue of what you are doing.
That is the only reason I ever post to your absurdly silly continuous banter anymore, it's not really for you, I thought you knew that, I post for the other readers knowledge.
Glad we cleared that up.
The reason that i have been so lucky in the sport as i do try and do my homework, not only on the driving side, but on the building side as well.
Those that know me, see the same car for 10 years, with out ever pulling out a wrench at the track, and driving to and from the track as well, for most all races. Now, if i had "no clue" you would think my times or record would reflect an incling of it, but it doesnt now does it. There is a reason you always see some $100k racer driven by a pro racer behind me in my pictures. Im doing just a few things right. I like helping others do those things right too.
have fun, and follow the herd, you will probalby be ok. . But, dont be a hater!
03-20-2012, 09:57 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
Mark:
As far as I know, the Porsche Racing Club has never issued any type of logbook. Since I helped start the PRC, and have written the rules since the beginning in 2001-2002, I am pretty sure of this. So you will need a NASA logbook.
A few other things to note:
The NASA CCR spells out what you have to do if your safety equipment has ever been used... that is if you were ever in an accident with the gear. I am not sure if those requirements apply to any of your gear, but I recommend reviewing the rules carefully just in case.
As you may know, a few years ago, PCA changed its class structure. Now there is an index of performance based on engine type and along with engine displacement and the vehicle's weight, you use that to determine a GT class. It is all spelled out in the PCA rules document.
As far as fuel cells go, the NASA Porsche Racing Challenge Series Rules include language specifying requirements. It is theoretically possible to have a cell which meets these requirements along with PCA requirements, but does NOT meet NASA CCR requirements. As far as I know, you must meet full NASA CCR fuel cell requirements to race in the NASA GTS class.
- MM
As far as I know, the Porsche Racing Club has never issued any type of logbook. Since I helped start the PRC, and have written the rules since the beginning in 2001-2002, I am pretty sure of this. So you will need a NASA logbook.
A few other things to note:
The NASA CCR spells out what you have to do if your safety equipment has ever been used... that is if you were ever in an accident with the gear. I am not sure if those requirements apply to any of your gear, but I recommend reviewing the rules carefully just in case.
As you may know, a few years ago, PCA changed its class structure. Now there is an index of performance based on engine type and along with engine displacement and the vehicle's weight, you use that to determine a GT class. It is all spelled out in the PCA rules document.
As far as fuel cells go, the NASA Porsche Racing Challenge Series Rules include language specifying requirements. It is theoretically possible to have a cell which meets these requirements along with PCA requirements, but does NOT meet NASA CCR requirements. As far as I know, you must meet full NASA CCR fuel cell requirements to race in the NASA GTS class.
- MM
03-20-2012, 10:57 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
Mark, per NASA on fuel cells Scott is correct (page 54 of the NASA rulebook):
"15.4 Fuel Cell / Tank
As of January 1, 2009 no new logbooks will be issued for vehicles with a fuel cell, unless
the fuel cell is FIA FT3 (or higher) certified. As of January 1, 2012 all fuel cells must be
FIA FT3 (or higher) certified, regardless of the date of purchase or date of the logbook
issuance."
and:
"15.4.2 Rotary-molded cells
Rotary-molded cells are not allowed unless the bladder meets the current FIA FT3
specifications and carries the current FIA FT3 standard certification mark, label, or
stamp. Most or all JAZ and RCI brand cells are examples of rotary-molded cells that do
not carry such ratings. [Notes: A good fuel cell is made by companies such as ATL or
Fuel Safe (other than their entry level models), and should cost $550 or more. Beware
of inexpensive “SCCA APPROVED” cells. While SCCA is a fine organization, the stamp
of approval found on some safety items may pertain to other forms of racing, and may
not be consistent with these rules. Consult an expert before purchase."
and (not to flog a dead horse but it is important) from appendix D:
"29.1 Head and Neck Restraint Systems
29.1.1 General
There is an up to date list of devices that are SFI 38.1 certified located here:
http://www.sfifoundation.com/manuf.html#38.1. If the device is not on this list it will not
fulfill the use mandate. As of April 1, 2012 all devices that have and SFI certification and
are more than five (5) years old should be sent back to the manufacturer for rectification
per SFI 38.1 specifications. Those devices that have an FIA certification, whether they
also have an SFI certification or not, are not required to be recertified.
29.1.2 Installation and Replacement
Any systems used must be installed and used according to the manufacturer’s
directions. The driver is ultimately responsible for the proper installation and use of
these devices. It should be noted that “webbing based” systems should be replaced at
least every three years or sooner if the manufacturer specifies such. Any device that
shows signs of wear or abrasions should be sent back to the manufacturer for repair or
should be replaced. “Homemade” repairs are not allowed."
...the more you know...
"15.4 Fuel Cell / Tank
As of January 1, 2009 no new logbooks will be issued for vehicles with a fuel cell, unless
the fuel cell is FIA FT3 (or higher) certified. As of January 1, 2012 all fuel cells must be
FIA FT3 (or higher) certified, regardless of the date of purchase or date of the logbook
issuance."
and:
"15.4.2 Rotary-molded cells
Rotary-molded cells are not allowed unless the bladder meets the current FIA FT3
specifications and carries the current FIA FT3 standard certification mark, label, or
stamp. Most or all JAZ and RCI brand cells are examples of rotary-molded cells that do
not carry such ratings. [Notes: A good fuel cell is made by companies such as ATL or
Fuel Safe (other than their entry level models), and should cost $550 or more. Beware
of inexpensive “SCCA APPROVED” cells. While SCCA is a fine organization, the stamp
of approval found on some safety items may pertain to other forms of racing, and may
not be consistent with these rules. Consult an expert before purchase."
and (not to flog a dead horse but it is important) from appendix D:
"29.1 Head and Neck Restraint Systems
29.1.1 General
There is an up to date list of devices that are SFI 38.1 certified located here:
http://www.sfifoundation.com/manuf.html#38.1. If the device is not on this list it will not
fulfill the use mandate. As of April 1, 2012 all devices that have and SFI certification and
are more than five (5) years old should be sent back to the manufacturer for rectification
per SFI 38.1 specifications. Those devices that have an FIA certification, whether they
also have an SFI certification or not, are not required to be recertified.
29.1.2 Installation and Replacement
Any systems used must be installed and used according to the manufacturer’s
directions. The driver is ultimately responsible for the proper installation and use of
these devices. It should be noted that “webbing based” systems should be replaced at
least every three years or sooner if the manufacturer specifies such. Any device that
shows signs of wear or abrasions should be sent back to the manufacturer for repair or
should be replaced. “Homemade” repairs are not allowed."
...the more you know...
03-21-2012, 11:43 AM
#23
Race Director
I have a NASA logbook for my 928 Estate....the lemons racer....it is speced for GTS2....you do NOT have to run a fuel cell to race in GTS.....the rules state this
"A fuel cell is not required, except as specified by class rules. It is recommended for all
NASA classes, unless specifically listed otherwise. All vehicles having a fuel cell MUST
comply with the rules in this section, even if a fuel cell is not required."
"A fuel cell is not required, except as specified by class rules. It is recommended for all
NASA classes, unless specifically listed otherwise. All vehicles having a fuel cell MUST
comply with the rules in this section, even if a fuel cell is not required."
03-21-2012, 11:48 AM
#24
Rennlist Member
I have a NASA logbook for my 928 Estate....the lemons racer....it is speced for GTS2....you do NOT have to run a fuel cell to race in GTS.....the rules state this
"A fuel cell is not required, except as specified by class rules. It is recommended for all
NASA classes, unless specifically listed otherwise. All vehicles having a fuel cell MUST
comply with the rules in this section, even if a fuel cell is not required."
"A fuel cell is not required, except as specified by class rules. It is recommended for all
NASA classes, unless specifically listed otherwise. All vehicles having a fuel cell MUST
comply with the rules in this section, even if a fuel cell is not required."
03-21-2012, 12:06 PM
#25
I have a NASA logbook for my 928 Estate....the lemons racer....it is speced for GTS2....you do NOT have to run a fuel cell to race in GTS.....the rules state this
"A fuel cell is not required, except as specified by class rules. It is recommended for all
NASA classes, unless specifically listed otherwise. All vehicles having a fuel cell MUST
comply with the rules in this section, even if a fuel cell is not required."
"A fuel cell is not required, except as specified by class rules. It is recommended for all
NASA classes, unless specifically listed otherwise. All vehicles having a fuel cell MUST
comply with the rules in this section, even if a fuel cell is not required."
Scott
03-21-2012, 07:08 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
So, because i have a stock tank, very much like the GT3cup car style of the early 2000s, it should be ok, because it is stock and not modified, right?
you may have got the impression that i had a fuel cell, but i was able to run most all series without one.
Originally Posted by winders
I don't think Mark's "fuel cell" will pass tech....
Scott
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
you may have got the impression that i had a fuel cell, but i was able to run most all series without one.
Originally Posted by winders
I don't think Mark's "fuel cell" will pass tech....
Scott
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
03-21-2012, 07:29 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
Mark,
If you have a stock 928 factory tank in its original location you are good to go. Anything else would mean you would have to have a certified fuel cell. I thought you had a cell of some sort...
If you have a stock 928 factory tank in its original location you are good to go. Anything else would mean you would have to have a certified fuel cell. I thought you had a cell of some sort...
03-21-2012, 07:36 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Mark, per NASA on fuel cells Scott is correct (page 54 of the NASA rulebook):
"15.4 Fuel Cell / Tank
As of January 1, 2009 no new logbooks will be issued for vehicles with a fuel cell, unless
the fuel cell is FIA FT3 (or higher) certified. As of January 1, 2012 all fuel cells must be
FIA FT3 (or higher) certified, regardless of the date of purchase or date of the logbook
issuance."
and:
"15.4.2 Rotary-molded cells
Rotary-molded cells are not allowed unless the bladder meets the current FIA FT3
specifications and carries the current FIA FT3 standard certification mark, label, or
stamp. Most or all JAZ and RCI brand cells are examples of rotary-molded cells that do
not carry such ratings. [Notes: A good fuel cell is made by companies such as ATL or
Fuel Safe (other than their entry level models), and should cost $550 or more. Beware
of inexpensive “SCCA APPROVED” cells. While SCCA is a fine organization, the stamp
of approval found on some safety items may pertain to other forms of racing, and may
not be consistent with these rules. Consult an expert before purchase."
and (not to flog a dead horse but it is important) from appendix D:
"29.1 Head and Neck Restraint Systems
29.1.1 General
There is an up to date list of devices that are SFI 38.1 certified located here:
http://www.sfifoundation.com/manuf.html#38.1. If the device is not on this list it will not
fulfill the use mandate. As of April 1, 2012 all devices that have and SFI certification and
are more than five (5) years old should be sent back to the manufacturer for rectification
per SFI 38.1 specifications. Those devices that have an FIA certification, whether they
also have an SFI certification or not, are not required to be recertified.
29.1.2 Installation and Replacement
Any systems used must be installed and used according to the manufacturer’s
directions. The driver is ultimately responsible for the proper installation and use of
these devices. It should be noted that “webbing based” systems should be replaced at
least every three years or sooner if the manufacturer specifies such. Any device that
shows signs of wear or abrasions should be sent back to the manufacturer for repair or
should be replaced. “Homemade” repairs are not allowed."
...the more you know...
"15.4 Fuel Cell / Tank
As of January 1, 2009 no new logbooks will be issued for vehicles with a fuel cell, unless
the fuel cell is FIA FT3 (or higher) certified. As of January 1, 2012 all fuel cells must be
FIA FT3 (or higher) certified, regardless of the date of purchase or date of the logbook
issuance."
and:
"15.4.2 Rotary-molded cells
Rotary-molded cells are not allowed unless the bladder meets the current FIA FT3
specifications and carries the current FIA FT3 standard certification mark, label, or
stamp. Most or all JAZ and RCI brand cells are examples of rotary-molded cells that do
not carry such ratings. [Notes: A good fuel cell is made by companies such as ATL or
Fuel Safe (other than their entry level models), and should cost $550 or more. Beware
of inexpensive “SCCA APPROVED” cells. While SCCA is a fine organization, the stamp
of approval found on some safety items may pertain to other forms of racing, and may
not be consistent with these rules. Consult an expert before purchase."
and (not to flog a dead horse but it is important) from appendix D:
"29.1 Head and Neck Restraint Systems
29.1.1 General
There is an up to date list of devices that are SFI 38.1 certified located here:
http://www.sfifoundation.com/manuf.html#38.1. If the device is not on this list it will not
fulfill the use mandate. As of April 1, 2012 all devices that have and SFI certification and
are more than five (5) years old should be sent back to the manufacturer for rectification
per SFI 38.1 specifications. Those devices that have an FIA certification, whether they
also have an SFI certification or not, are not required to be recertified.
29.1.2 Installation and Replacement
Any systems used must be installed and used according to the manufacturer’s
directions. The driver is ultimately responsible for the proper installation and use of
these devices. It should be noted that “webbing based” systems should be replaced at
least every three years or sooner if the manufacturer specifies such. Any device that
shows signs of wear or abrasions should be sent back to the manufacturer for repair or
should be replaced. “Homemade” repairs are not allowed."
...the more you know...
03-21-2012, 07:42 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
No, I have a stock 928 in the stock location. no mods to it at all , and it is in a location that also supports other racing organazations for safety in that the tank is plastic , colapsible, and proteced by a bulkhead from the passenger compart and the rear of the car. some organizations , like SCCA pro WCGT /touring, would accept this in lue of the fuel cell requirement, as the cup cars had this for a long time. (that comment is where the confusion came from i would imagine)
gotchah. sorry to give that impression. yes, stock tank, no mods. looks very safe to me as far as location and protection.