333pg333

Geez, one could be excused for thinking that some 911 guys think less of the 944 platform. I'm betting a big reason that you see some breakdowns of 944s at the track is because they are bought by younger guys who find that they can 'afford a Porsche'. Perhaps to buy one, but once you modify and race any cars you need more than just the purchase price alone. Put a bit more money into them and they can be made as reliable as the 911s...and often a lot faster.

I didn't particularly read that he was trying to flog his product to us. More, just making very transparent tech remarks. Wasn't hiding the fact that they intend to sell the stuff in the future.

kurt M

Agree. Please let this thread continue. Good content. Too many oil threads are ad / info based.

analogmike

Reminds me of the old Bruce Anderson articles in PCA magazine, he always gave severeal oil recommendations but avoided listing the ones he knew were junk (Castrol - great marketing though).

paradisenb

I have followed this thread since the beginning and have not read anything between the lines that suggests 67King is promoting the oil has doesn't even have yet. Besides, how profitable could it be to sell to a few dozen end users 50-60 litres/quarts per year? To get from PITA to successful business venture one's market would need to be high volume resellers.

So far it has been an interesting discussion. I switched to Joe Gibbs VP5 last year. Car burns no oil, but I have experienced elevated temps, which is why I changed from M1 in the 1st place. I removed the front cooler and cleaned all the debris from the fins. The pebbles and small pieces of rubber were significant. I will have a better feel after RA and perhaps another event. If temps stay elevated I will switch again.

Oddjob

What kind of oil temps are you guys seeing in the air cooled motors that make you nervous?

67King - what kind of operating or max temps are these oils capable of before film strength, viscosity, or other characteristics start falling off to a point of concern?

Astroman

I agree also. Interesting information.

67King

Thanks for the support, fellas! I have to admit I've been a bit fearful of crossing that line, but it sounds as if y'all think I'm doing a pretty good job.

Without posting full details, of the benchmarks we have tested, the range of ZDDP is from 1000ppm to 2230ppm. I'll verify this, but I think that there is only one above 1500. The range of ester content is from trace to 20%, which gets back to my marketing point - saying it is ester based does not mean it is 100% ester!

Also, here is a PDF of some friction data showing both coefficient of friction (bottom, blue line) and oil film thickness as a function of temperature. Here is a site that explains how oil film thickness is measured. http://www.pcs-instruments.com/mtm/a.../mtm-ecr.shtml.

There are two "bad" oils and two "good" oils. Those are examples. I will NOT say whose they are in either case. Note the temperatures are in degrees C, not F. Correction is F = 1.8*C + 32.

Note also that the temperature in teh sump may not be representative of the temperature where the oil is doing its job. In reality, it will vary widely. It will probably be cooler in the cranktrain, but it may be hotter on the cylinder walls. Also note that the coefficient of friction will be most critical at BDC and TDC when the rings transition from hydrodynamic to boundary conditions.

Jim, I could tell you what Millers is happy with, but I can't do it for others, and I would probably be crossing the line if I did for Millers. Trust me, there is a lot that I would like ot say here, we are very excited about this opportunity. But I don't think it would be prudent or fair to do that until/unless we do become sponsors.

spanky

I just keep it simple and stick to Mobil 1 twin V- 20/50 for the 951, the 911s and the 240Z. It works for me and Im willing to live with a leak in order to have this level of protection it provides.

chrisc

[QUOTE=67King;9338178]There are multiple lines of "VR-1." The "good" stuff has "not for street use" on the label. It has lower levels of ZDDP, which your engine, IMHO, really needs.

Harry, didn't you mean has higher levels of ZDDP??

67King

[quote=chrisc;9503393]Thanks, Chris, good catch. I believe my brain was working faster than my fingers and I was referring to the "normal" VR-1 you can buy at NAPA and Auto Zone, but I forgot to mention that part. Only the stuff that sayd "not for street use" has higher levels of ZDDP.

Circuit Motorsports

That stuff isn't VR-1 either.

It's just Valvoline Racing Oil
It has the "not street legal" on the bottle as well. Some Napa carry it. Most can get it in a day.

It was the oil of choice for a couple of the Pinto engine builders for formula cars. I have about 10 qts sitting on the shelf right now. They used to be 3 bucks a quart now it's up to 10ish in the last 3-4 years.

chrisc

Sorry, don't understand your post. Are you saying the VR1 Synthetic Racing Oil labeled "Not For Street Use" is something other than advertised? Valvoline shows three versions of VR1 - VR1 Petroleum, VR1 Racing Synthetic, VR1 Racing Synthetic Not for Street Use. Valvoline claims the not for Street Use version is low detergent, high ZDDP content.

Circuit Motorsports

The real whizzy Valvoline isn't VR1

Here's the link to the not street legal stuff
http://www.valvoline.com/products/br...ng-motor-oil/9

Here's the VR1 racing
http://www.valvoline.com/products/co...g-motor-oil/6/

I think most people if they are using valvoline are using the VR1 but the first link is better stuff.

chrisc

Thanks, we are on the same page. Valvoline could do a better presentation on the website. the "not legal street stuff" is on the VR1 tab.

67King

Not to mention the whole misnomar of calling VR-1 what they call it. I've known more than a few people fall victem to that, including myself. My con rod bearings lasted 3 weekends on that stuff, though allegedly Glyco was having some quality control issues. I got a full bar more oil pressure with Motul 300V than I got with VR-1 (15W50 versus 20W50), too.

Good rule of thumb is if you can buy it from a Napa, Pep Boys, etc. type of place, or heaven forbid Wal-Mart, you don't want it in your track car.