onefastviking

Weren't the Euro SC's or all the SC's for that matter the ones that had the extra warm up injector that could be wired to spray all the time ?

onefastviking

Of course no one would attempt to do that in a stock PCA class, would they ?

FrankyV

So you too have seen the videos where the Euro SC revs to 8500 RPM and beyond?

flatsics

That would be a difficult way too adjust the A/F ratio, when you can easily adjust the warm up regulator if you know what you are doing.

A well driven Euro SC can win in F , so it is definitely the top car in E.

You can adjust the timing, A/F ratio, cam timing.
They respond very well to proper exhaust tuning.
Will rev to 7300-7400 RPM reliably.

Buckley Euro SC 3.0 with Buckley headers dyno sheet.

Jim Child

That's pretty much the same power that my car puts out, but I have to run at 3,236 lbs. The Euro SC should be in F.

Horus2000

So....at 210 rhp assuming a 15% loss that makes 247hp at the engine. The offficial class weight tables in the rule book list that car at 204. Granted there are gains to be made from exhaust, etc. but +20% over stock? Maybe the stock tables are just highly conservative?
I'm not mechanical, so if I'm misunderstanding something, please school me...I'm really not trying to make accusations or stir things up. But I would like to understand what's reasonable in making my car more competitive - other than a better driver

flatsics

The stock HP is underrated on most Porsche engines.
The usual 15% loss factor is high for a Porsche engine/transaxle and the 915 is more efficient than the G50.
The 911 SC engines really respond to proper headers/free flow exhaust.
The fuel injection/ignition timing is very tuneable/adjustable, as opposed to the Motronic fuel injected cars that have to use the stock chip.

My personal opinion is to allow modifed chips in stock class and give prepared cars a percentage weight loss over stock.
Have a 94 octane limit for fuel.

DME chips are not easily checked and are not currently being checked on a regular basis. This would eliminate an easy area to cheat, and close the gap between CIS and DME cars.

Astroman

They are just highly outdated (wrong) and provide only a rough estimation for the PCA racing classification system.

There are so many variables that those tables can't account for: real world hp and torque, gearing, rev limits/DME (or lack thereof), exhaust, "tune-ability," etc...

flatsics

They are the factory published engine horsepower and weights.
So they are not wrong or outdated per se, just don't always reflect real world racing performance accurately.

Actually most PCA classes a pretty competitive and PCA has done a fairly good job of classing cars. The classes were never set up so that all cars would be 100% equal.

Even if we went to weight/hp with dyno sheets, some cars will still be the have advantages over others.
Aero,gearing,brakes,variable intakes/cam timing. Newer chassis vs. older. ABS vs. non ABS cars. There are just a lot of variables to consider besides weight/hp.

Horus2000

I appreciate the input guys.

paradisenb

I agree. PCA does a very good job overall with car classification.

Look no farther than NASA GTS for confirmation that the weight to HP formula does not always work very well. Some cars are 5-7 secs faster than other cars in the same class. Driver always make a big difference, but there are consistencies among marks that can track car over car disparities.

arrivederci

Not all Euro SCs make 210 rwhp. Mine made 188 on the dyno. Tells me I need to have buckley work on my motor. But for those that have been on track with him, it's not just hp. He can drive it too. It takes both.

There are non Euro SCs that keep up with him. I can think of a particular 951 that's also extremely well prepared and driven.

Horus2000

I completely agree, Buckley is wicked fast. I wasn't referring to him specifically, it's just that it was one of his motors happened to be the one with the dyno sheet.

At the end of the day, the fastest/best drivers are generally at the front of the pack due to skill, not simply better tuning.

Der ABT

just like when yuo buy a car, some the factory need to detune others wont even make enough and get torn down (according to the porsche factory tour i took 3 yrs ago) so many variables come in, humidty temp altitude etc so even on race day it will vary.
and being in denver wont help your numbers, bet if you went to floriday and dyno'd on a nice cool night the number would increase significantly.

i agree PCA has done a pretty good job making things close to even....i would bet if i had let randy pobst drive my car at sebring he coulda been right up there with buckley and the rest...well i hope haha....thus proving i suck at driving (the real reason i passed on the opportunity of a lifetime

just like its said above there is always going to be an ideal car in a mixed field....look st nasa and the bmw's etc....


and to flatsics.....propose a rule change sounds like it could work and prevent certain things......still feel a rev limiter shuold be enforced but thats only cause i have one.

arrivederci

Yes, altitude does make a difference. So do the buckely wheels (which I'm not running) and every other little detail that he has worked out on his cars.

That also explains how I can pull out onto the main straight with similar speed to other (equal?) cars and see them walk away. Carreras do the same, and some D 911scs are pretty even on the straights. I'm too cheap to do a rebuild.