ProCoach

Such a shame, and unnecessary, too.

On the Test Day drivers meeting, the Track Operations manager TOLD the assembled group that they had had issues with that section and EXPLAINED the prevalent geometry of the accidents seen in previous events. So much so, he pointed out that they were on the process of extending the soft barriers further towards the bridge.

Anyone looking from the support paddock could see the crest that coincides with the direction change back to the left.

There's a lot of information out there to raise concentration to avoid this sort of thing. Most folks could stand to be open to more of it...

Veloce Raptor

^^^ spot on, all points ^^^

Lots of folks driving point-to-point through there, irrespective of the track terrain & geometry & what the Ops Manager said.

ProCoach

We would have had a good time trading notes at dinner!

Veloce Raptor

Yessir. Indeed.
I assume you will be at the Glen in 2 weeks?

EDIT: by the way, I enjoyed chasing down your main man Chris M in the enduro yesterday, until I got pushed way off track exiting 1 by a lapped car. Oh well, no contact so that's good!

TXE36

The T3 entry was discussed by David Murry at the Chalk Talk, VR and Jim Garrett at the drivers meeting plus a few others chimed in as well. I never thought T3 was all that dramatic. Upon reviewing the video, it turns out I was doing it right all along. There is a slight turning of the wheel to the left, gently loading up the right side well before the bridge, starting the turn about mid track. Do that, and it's easy to put the left sides on the T3 curbing, and go straight it T4 for a brake and a downshift. The left side wall didn't seem like a likely destination with this line. With this line there is lots of off track pavement if one botches it.

I'm not trying to gloat, but I was very pleased with my driving T3-T4. The rest, however, needs a lot of work. COTA exercises skills not really used at other tracks like TWS and MSRH. Definitely found some holes in my driving resume.

One other note, is I was impressed with the Airfence wall. I was standing on the T3 bridge when the yellow 911 lost it under the bridge. The car rotated left and went into the wall at very high speed hitting the right rear. He hit it hard enough to blow the foam almost to the paddock access road. There was a collective gasp and silence for the second or so it took between the car's obvious destination and the impact. That car was back on the track racing the next day. No doubt had that been Armco or concrete the car would have been totaled and the driver maybe hurt.



-Mike

Veloce Raptor

Airfence is amazing...as it should be at a replacement cost (billed to each driver who hit it) of $1,000 per linear foot. And you saw them out there with tape measures every time it was hit.

The challenge folks had in 3, in addition to point to point, was not adjusting their timing when they bent the car into 3 as they started going faster through 1 and into and out of 2. As speeds increase, that bend-iin needs to begin sooner & sooner.

winders

I can certainly see the logic behind using non-R compound tires when first starting out on the big track. But I don't understand the logic behind using an ill handling car instead of a well setup car.

Scott

Jenner

Would love constructive criticism on how to SAFELY improve at Lime Rock from the resident coaches. My PCA instructors tell me what I already know; I brake too soon and too hard and that I have been taught the "DE line" for years. I am transitioning to the race line but that is a work in progress.

I will be the first to admit I am being overly cautious as I can't "win" DE and I am not trailering, so I need to be able to drive home at the end of the day. I was given an opportunity to hire Simon Kirkby to coach me this coming weekend so hopefully that helps as well. Thanks for any insights/feedback provided!

Larry Herman

Scott, you may be the exception and are crediting others for skills that they have not yet developed. A softer sprung car with street tires has a very large operating window of adhesion, is very tolerant of imprecise inputs, and literally shouts at you when it is at the limit of grip. As you stiffen the suspension and upgrade the tires, that window gets smaller, the speeds get higher, things happen faster and now the car just talks to you. 1500 lbs springs and race rubber make that window a slit, the steering wheel inputs have to be made quickly in response to the constantly changing levels of grip, events happen immediately and now the car just whispers to you. If you haven't developed the skill to listen carefully, you'll never hear it (or see it coming). That's why you need to start slowly and softly, to develop your ability to "listen" to what the car tells you. A handful have it right away, most do not, and quite a few never get it, ever.

Matt Romanowski

Simon will be great to go with you. Besides the over braking, you need to use more track through the middle of Big Bend and on the entrance to the left hander. That will allow you to carry some more speed into the corners.

I think it was Ross Bentley who pointed out lots of pages ago that you have to step outside the comfort zone and push yourself sometimes. That means get the car to slide. You don't want to go in 150%, but go 101% - then you have a small slide or line change that is managable and a "teaching moment."

cavlino

Great explanation.

winders

Like I said, street tires make sense. I am not suggesting someone get a stiffly sprung Cup Car on day one. I am talking about a reasonably well setup street car. Not a well setup race car. We are talking DE events here.

For example, let's use an old air-cooled 911SC or Carrera. Going with street tires and a 21mm/30mm torsion bar setup with anti-roll bars and good shocks is not going to make it a diabolical monster on the big track. Set the anti-roll bars soft and you have reasonable platform that won't be a wallowing pig.

Scott

Larry Herman

I can agree with that, but have to caution that it does not apply as you move up the model years. I would not advocate changing anything (accept alignment) on a newer Cayman or 997 until the driver becomes quite proficient.

winders

My wife's 2005 997 Carrera was just okay in the "wallowing pig" department when I took it on the track. Maybe the later models are better, but her car would not have been made horrible for novices if the spring rates were raised a bit and better shocks and anti-roll bars installed. It still would have been soft and forgiving yet reasonably responsive.

With the stock 997, I could not believe how long you had to wait for something to happen when you made an input. Both on normal inputs and corrective inputs. This was before I ever drove a purpose built race car too.

Scott

TXE36

Attached is a crappy cropped iPhone picture from the T3 bridge. The wall at the left was a straight line before the hit. Note the white foam to the left of it. The road in the upper left is the road from Tunnel 2 to the lower and upper paddocks.

That car was racing the following day.

-Mike