ASK THE COACH
10-11-2017, 10:13 PM
#2941
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
1. Generally, yes, because without being at temp, the contact patch won't be worth much
2. Not sure. I am not an A7 expert.
3. Yes; absolutely
4. They won't drop 10 degrees if you come in truly hot. Left tires outside third will likely be warmest, followed possibly by right tires inside third
I will be there all 3 days. Working with a few folks and also teaching the advanced classroom each day
2. Not sure. I am not an A7 expert.
3. Yes; absolutely
4. They won't drop 10 degrees if you come in truly hot. Left tires outside third will likely be warmest, followed possibly by right tires inside third
I will be there all 3 days. Working with a few folks and also teaching the advanced classroom each day
10-12-2017, 01:15 PM
#2947
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I want to ask about tire pressures and their relationship with temperatures to make sure that I have it right.
The most important thing is selecting a pressure (within the safe range, so down to 22 hot for me) that results in the correct tire temperature?
I have a 2200 lb NASA TT3 car and a pb of 2:27. I can pretty much only get the tires up to temp with ~23 psi hot, and I am still not sure if I can get R7's up to temp out there.
I guess I am rambling a bit so I will go to point form for my questions.
1. Is getting tires to the correct temps the #1 consideration, over managing contact patch/wear etc? When I run them low enough to get hot they certainly wear more on the outside.
2. Is there a target temp for A7's when used for track use.
3. Should I be able to get a R7 to temp in a 2200 lb car with 250 HP at COTA?
4. What temp will I see on the tires after coming through 16-17-18 fast and slowing to enter the pits, will they have cooled 10 degrees? More? Using a probe pyrometer.
Thanks for any help! Ill bring some beer if you're at the COTA PCA event.
The most important thing is selecting a pressure (within the safe range, so down to 22 hot for me) that results in the correct tire temperature?
I have a 2200 lb NASA TT3 car and a pb of 2:27. I can pretty much only get the tires up to temp with ~23 psi hot, and I am still not sure if I can get R7's up to temp out there.
I guess I am rambling a bit so I will go to point form for my questions.
1. Is getting tires to the correct temps the #1 consideration, over managing contact patch/wear etc? When I run them low enough to get hot they certainly wear more on the outside.
2. Is there a target temp for A7's when used for track use.
3. Should I be able to get a R7 to temp in a 2200 lb car with 250 HP at COTA?
4. What temp will I see on the tires after coming through 16-17-18 fast and slowing to enter the pits, will they have cooled 10 degrees? More? Using a probe pyrometer.
Thanks for any help! Ill bring some beer if you're at the COTA PCA event.
Correct temps are a goal, but not the end all be all. You can get really good temps and have a car that is slow. It's about temp, wear, pressure, and most importantly, grip.
I don't know the temp target for A7, but call Hoosier. They will tell you. Whether A7 or R7, you should be able to get the tires into the right operating temps.
10-12-2017, 01:25 PM
#2948
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I want to ask about tire pressures and their relationship with temperatures to make sure that I have it right.
The most important thing is selecting a pressure (within the safe range, so down to 22 hot for me) that results in the correct tire temperature?
I have a 2200 lb NASA TT3 car and a pb of 2:27. I can pretty much only get the tires up to temp with ~23 psi hot, and I am still not sure if I can get R7's up to temp out there.
I guess I am rambling a bit so I will go to point form for my questions.
1. Is getting tires to the correct temps the #1 consideration, over managing contact patch/wear etc? When I run them low enough to get hot they certainly wear more on the outside.
2. Is there a target temp for A7's when used for track use.
3. Should I be able to get a R7 to temp in a 2200 lb car with 250 HP at COTA?
4. What temp will I see on the tires after coming through 16-17-18 fast and slowing to enter the pits, will they have cooled 10 degrees? More? Using a probe pyrometer.
Thanks for any help! Ill bring some beer if you're at the COTA PCA event.
The most important thing is selecting a pressure (within the safe range, so down to 22 hot for me) that results in the correct tire temperature?
I have a 2200 lb NASA TT3 car and a pb of 2:27. I can pretty much only get the tires up to temp with ~23 psi hot, and I am still not sure if I can get R7's up to temp out there.
I guess I am rambling a bit so I will go to point form for my questions.
1. Is getting tires to the correct temps the #1 consideration, over managing contact patch/wear etc? When I run them low enough to get hot they certainly wear more on the outside.
2. Is there a target temp for A7's when used for track use.
3. Should I be able to get a R7 to temp in a 2200 lb car with 250 HP at COTA?
4. What temp will I see on the tires after coming through 16-17-18 fast and slowing to enter the pits, will they have cooled 10 degrees? More? Using a probe pyrometer.
Thanks for any help! Ill bring some beer if you're at the COTA PCA event.
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-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
10-13-2017, 09:48 AM
#2949
Three Wheelin'
how to deal with pressure behind you?
this morning after my first cup of coffee it came to me....
I make mistakes when there is pressure from a car behind me. (funny enough I knew about the reverse and used it to get cars who were reluctant to give a point-by out of my way a year ago)
yesterday I was in my first cup outing and I had a spin when I got on throttle too early/abruptly at the exit of NJMP T5 when a cayman was catching me in corners (I pulled away on straights)
going back in memory it even has happened in the past in my GT4 although very infrequently. Part of the challenge is that in the GT4 there was very rarely pressure in the back and in the cup, once I get a little more up to speed, there will be not much more in DE settings...
my goal is to race and in GTC3 I will have plenty of this pressure with faster cup cars around as well as GTB1s who are faster in corners and slower in straights.
as a strategy In DE I could ignore them until I give them the pass signal but that is not sensible for progressing to racing.
how do I solve this? what should I practice?
I make mistakes when there is pressure from a car behind me. (funny enough I knew about the reverse and used it to get cars who were reluctant to give a point-by out of my way a year ago)
yesterday I was in my first cup outing and I had a spin when I got on throttle too early/abruptly at the exit of NJMP T5 when a cayman was catching me in corners (I pulled away on straights)
going back in memory it even has happened in the past in my GT4 although very infrequently. Part of the challenge is that in the GT4 there was very rarely pressure in the back and in the cup, once I get a little more up to speed, there will be not much more in DE settings...
my goal is to race and in GTC3 I will have plenty of this pressure with faster cup cars around as well as GTB1s who are faster in corners and slower in straights.
as a strategy In DE I could ignore them until I give them the pass signal but that is not sensible for progressing to racing.
how do I solve this? what should I practice?
10-13-2017, 10:09 AM
#2950
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Actually it is sensible. Why would you feel pressure in a DE?
IMO always work on your own agenda in a DE, even if it means letting other vehicles by to give you a gap. It's a mindset thing.
In addition, tell yourself every time you transition to throttle "20%-40%-60%-80%-WOT"
IMO always work on your own agenda in a DE, even if it means letting other vehicles by to give you a gap. It's a mindset thing.
In addition, tell yourself every time you transition to throttle "20%-40%-60%-80%-WOT"
10-13-2017, 10:26 AM
#2951
Three Wheelin'
@VR
agreed for DE its sensible.... I am very easy in giving point-bys especially when I am working on something. it is more the situation where you are at very similar speed and I am the one being chased.
It is a skill that is missing for me and that I need to develop to be able to be comfortable with that aspect in in racing. I guess identifying the issue is the first step so I can more actively deal with it (eg having this discussion as well as if the situation comes up make it my goal for that session to deal with it)
I am looking for strategies to deal with it as well as for habits that I can develop (in absence of actual pressure) that will make it easier to deal with pressure from the back.
agreed for DE its sensible.... I am very easy in giving point-bys especially when I am working on something. it is more the situation where you are at very similar speed and I am the one being chased.
It is a skill that is missing for me and that I need to develop to be able to be comfortable with that aspect in in racing. I guess identifying the issue is the first step so I can more actively deal with it (eg having this discussion as well as if the situation comes up make it my goal for that session to deal with it)
I am looking for strategies to deal with it as well as for habits that I can develop (in absence of actual pressure) that will make it easier to deal with pressure from the back.
10-13-2017, 04:27 PM
#2953
Instructor
Most drivers do. It is a self imposed pressure.
Two parts.
When not racing, watch your mirrors more and see when the other car is gaining as opposed to suddenly noticing there is a car on your bumper. When not racing, yield sooner and follow as opposed to making the other driver get up your tailpipe to get a point by. Now that you have taken the pressure off because you anticipated the whole getting caught and passed scenario, you can focus on driving a better line and hopefully be able to follow the faster car and LEARN by observing the other driver. I find it strange that most will hold up the faster driver until after the corner and right before the long straight. Why not let him by sooner and then you can see WHY he is faster in the corners. Watch his brake lights to see when he applies the brakes and when he is completely off the brakes.
You learn nothing by holding back a faster driver through the corners and then letting him by on the straights.
How to not get rattled by the faster driver? That only comes with experience and confidence. More seat time. More time applying the above suggestion. Make every pass by a faster driver an opportunity for you to learn something. Eventually you will be that faster driver that someone else is following to learn from.
When racing, you can apply some of this by noticing which cars are really faster ( again, be observant of who is where in your mirrors) and planning a good time to let them by in such a manner that neither of you lose any time on the lap. Until you are at the pointy end of the field, your actual finishing place is merely academic. Sometimes it is better to give up a place or two to learn something, then you can leap frog up the pack in the future.
When not racing, watch your mirrors more and see when the other car is gaining as opposed to suddenly noticing there is a car on your bumper. When not racing, yield sooner and follow as opposed to making the other driver get up your tailpipe to get a point by. Now that you have taken the pressure off because you anticipated the whole getting caught and passed scenario, you can focus on driving a better line and hopefully be able to follow the faster car and LEARN by observing the other driver. I find it strange that most will hold up the faster driver until after the corner and right before the long straight. Why not let him by sooner and then you can see WHY he is faster in the corners. Watch his brake lights to see when he applies the brakes and when he is completely off the brakes.
You learn nothing by holding back a faster driver through the corners and then letting him by on the straights.
How to not get rattled by the faster driver? That only comes with experience and confidence. More seat time. More time applying the above suggestion. Make every pass by a faster driver an opportunity for you to learn something. Eventually you will be that faster driver that someone else is following to learn from.
When racing, you can apply some of this by noticing which cars are really faster ( again, be observant of who is where in your mirrors) and planning a good time to let them by in such a manner that neither of you lose any time on the lap. Until you are at the pointy end of the field, your actual finishing place is merely academic. Sometimes it is better to give up a place or two to learn something, then you can leap frog up the pack in the future.
10-13-2017, 07:54 PM
#2954
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I would not make judgments on “who is faster” based on how quickly they close on you at any point on the track, other than off the corner.
It is proven that the accordion effect is misleading and simply not an effective gauge of relative speed differentials, AT SPECIFIC POINTS ON THE TRACK.
Marc, take Graham Rahal’s coach’s advise. Focus forward.
Stop being a nice guy and that’ll be just about the right amount of courtesy due the other drivers.
Use rhe mirror ONLY to develop and refine what my colleague and Rolex 24 class winner, Ron Zitza, calls “360 degree awareness.”
Thats it.
It is proven that the accordion effect is misleading and simply not an effective gauge of relative speed differentials, AT SPECIFIC POINTS ON THE TRACK.
Marc, take Graham Rahal’s coach’s advise. Focus forward.
Stop being a nice guy and that’ll be just about the right amount of courtesy due the other drivers.
Use rhe mirror ONLY to develop and refine what my colleague and Rolex 24 class winner, Ron Zitza, calls “360 degree awareness.”
Thats it.
