ASK THE COACH
10-06-2016, 08:49 AM
#2656
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Ryan, very nice driving as usual. That motor in that car is really a monster!
OK, so here are some small suggestions based on things I am seeing where there is some time, in no particular order:
After the bridge, start bending the car into 3 a tiny bit sooner. This will straighten the car out more between 3 and 4, and allow you to remain at WOT a bit longer, and brake less for 4
Get on a bit more throttle sooner before the gantry & second apex of 6 to pull a bit of the weight off the LF tire, reduce understeer, and increase velocity
Use way more apex of 7 and then let the car out...release way more steering...let the car track all the way out. Don't worry about setting up for 8. If you let the car out, you'll be along the white line all the way track right at the 7 track out, where lots of grip comes back. Then just drive straight up the hill into the braking zone of 8 and start straddling the curb way sooner. Remember, 8 is sort of a connector between the 1-7 segment and the 9-11 segment. Get it done with as quickly and efficiently as possible to set up for 9, using the hill to aid braking. There is a ton of time here. I worked a bunch last weekend on that segment with my 991 Cup guy and we picked up huge time here.
Use way more apex rumble strip of 11...this allows you to straighten the wheel sooner and keep from using so much track out rumble, which does not aid ecceleration
Apex about 1' later in 12, for the same reason
Add a bit more steering half way around the apex of 19 to get a better track out trajectory, whhich allows wheel straightening sooner
Same in 20...you're early and it's hurting exit speed
OK, so here are some small suggestions based on things I am seeing where there is some time, in no particular order:
After the bridge, start bending the car into 3 a tiny bit sooner. This will straighten the car out more between 3 and 4, and allow you to remain at WOT a bit longer, and brake less for 4
Get on a bit more throttle sooner before the gantry & second apex of 6 to pull a bit of the weight off the LF tire, reduce understeer, and increase velocity
Use way more apex of 7 and then let the car out...release way more steering...let the car track all the way out. Don't worry about setting up for 8. If you let the car out, you'll be along the white line all the way track right at the 7 track out, where lots of grip comes back. Then just drive straight up the hill into the braking zone of 8 and start straddling the curb way sooner. Remember, 8 is sort of a connector between the 1-7 segment and the 9-11 segment. Get it done with as quickly and efficiently as possible to set up for 9, using the hill to aid braking. There is a ton of time here. I worked a bunch last weekend on that segment with my 991 Cup guy and we picked up huge time here.
Use way more apex rumble strip of 11...this allows you to straighten the wheel sooner and keep from using so much track out rumble, which does not aid ecceleration
Apex about 1' later in 12, for the same reason
Add a bit more steering half way around the apex of 19 to get a better track out trajectory, whhich allows wheel straightening sooner
Same in 20...you're early and it's hurting exit speed
10-06-2016, 09:01 AM
#2657
I can't say I've driven a lot of tracks (TWS, MSRH, HHR & COTA), but of those, COTA is the only one that consistently fools me into turning too early. The visual presentation for all those tracks but COTA is sufficient to put the car in the right place, but for me, COTA requires the vision, and a bit of thought.
And Ryan, that was a nice, tidy lap.
-Mike
And Ryan, that was a nice, tidy lap.
-Mike
10-06-2016, 12:53 PM
#2658
Ryan, very nice driving as usual. That motor in that car is really a monster!
OK, so here are some small suggestions based on things I am seeing where there is some time, in no particular order:
After the bridge, start bending the car into 3 a tiny bit sooner. This will straighten the car out more between 3 and 4, and allow you to remain at WOT a bit longer, and brake less for 4
Get on a bit more throttle sooner before the gantry & second apex of 6 to pull a bit of the weight off the LF tire, reduce understeer, and increase velocity
Use way more apex of 7 and then let the car out...release way more steering...let the car track all the way out. Don't worry about setting up for 8. If you let the car out, you'll be along the white line all the way track right at the 7 track out, where lots of grip comes back. Then just drive straight up the hill into the braking zone of 8 and start straddling the curb way sooner. Remember, 8 is sort of a connector between the 1-7 segment and the 9-11 segment. Get it done with as quickly and efficiently as possible to set up for 9, using the hill to aid braking. There is a ton of time here. I worked a bunch last weekend on that segment with my 991 Cup guy and we picked up huge time here.
Use way more apex rumble strip of 11...this allows you to straighten the wheel sooner and keep from using so much track out rumble, which does not aid ecceleration
Apex about 1' later in 12, for the same reason
Add a bit more steering half way around the apex of 19 to get a better track out trajectory, whhich allows wheel straightening sooner
Same in 20...you're early and it's hurting exit speed
OK, so here are some small suggestions based on things I am seeing where there is some time, in no particular order:
After the bridge, start bending the car into 3 a tiny bit sooner. This will straighten the car out more between 3 and 4, and allow you to remain at WOT a bit longer, and brake less for 4
Get on a bit more throttle sooner before the gantry & second apex of 6 to pull a bit of the weight off the LF tire, reduce understeer, and increase velocity
Use way more apex of 7 and then let the car out...release way more steering...let the car track all the way out. Don't worry about setting up for 8. If you let the car out, you'll be along the white line all the way track right at the 7 track out, where lots of grip comes back. Then just drive straight up the hill into the braking zone of 8 and start straddling the curb way sooner. Remember, 8 is sort of a connector between the 1-7 segment and the 9-11 segment. Get it done with as quickly and efficiently as possible to set up for 9, using the hill to aid braking. There is a ton of time here. I worked a bunch last weekend on that segment with my 991 Cup guy and we picked up huge time here.
Use way more apex rumble strip of 11...this allows you to straighten the wheel sooner and keep from using so much track out rumble, which does not aid ecceleration
Apex about 1' later in 12, for the same reason
Add a bit more steering half way around the apex of 19 to get a better track out trajectory, whhich allows wheel straightening sooner
Same in 20...you're early and it's hurting exit speed
10-06-2016, 04:00 PM
#2659
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Haha! You can buy drinks!
10-08-2016, 06:33 PM
#2660
Rennlist Member
So, interesting day yesterday. When I left the track I was really frustrated because I didn't think I was making any progress because I wasn't getting near my personal best.
But when I came home and started digging through the data I realized that while my quickest laptime wasn't dropping my average lap times are. The quickest lap/personal best has always been somewhat of an outlier time (and sort of has to be by definition somehwat of an outlier) but my average lap is getting closer to my personal best and I guess I should be quite pleased with that.
As for your notes, I focused on opening up through/after 4 and the line through 6-9 and didn't spend any time on trailbraking into 3 because I wanted my entry to 4 to be consistent with what I've done before. I think it went well. Thanks again.
But when I came home and started digging through the data I realized that while my quickest laptime wasn't dropping my average lap times are. The quickest lap/personal best has always been somewhat of an outlier time (and sort of has to be by definition somehwat of an outlier) but my average lap is getting closer to my personal best and I guess I should be quite pleased with that.
As for your notes, I focused on opening up through/after 4 and the line through 6-9 and didn't spend any time on trailbraking into 3 because I wanted my entry to 4 to be consistent with what I've done before. I think it went well. Thanks again.
10-09-2016, 09:29 AM
#2661
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Fantastic observation! In fact, I agree with you, when personal bests are outliers, it's more accidental. When we can drive a bunch of laps very close to our PB, that consistency shows that we are significantly improving our driving. And IMO this is where TBL's (theoretical best laps, provided by some data systems) are of real use.
10-09-2016, 11:06 AM
#2662
So, interesting day yesterday. When I left the track I was really frustrated because I didn't think I was making any progress because I wasn't getting near my personal best.
But when I came home and started digging through the data I realized that while my quickest laptime wasn't dropping my average lap times are. The quickest lap/personal best has always been somewhat of an outlier time (and sort of has to be by definition somehwat of an outlier) but my average lap is getting closer to my personal best and I guess I should be quite pleased with that.
But when I came home and started digging through the data I realized that while my quickest laptime wasn't dropping my average lap times are. The quickest lap/personal best has always been somewhat of an outlier time (and sort of has to be by definition somehwat of an outlier) but my average lap is getting closer to my personal best and I guess I should be quite pleased with that.
Another factor is conditions change. There has to be some contribution to a PB based on them. What I've taken to is observing my place in my pier group so I note where I run in the instructor run group. Climbing that ladder is actually more satisfying than a PB. "Hey, I'm faster than him now." "That guy still gets by me, but I can keep in in sight now for a few laps rather than him just being by and gone." etc...
Another thing worth noting is can you run the same PBish lap times with less drama?
-Mike
10-09-2016, 02:13 PM
#2663
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THIS is the problem with being "a prisoner to a lap time."
When drivers don't do a "new" personal best, sometimes they take that as a setback, when there are MANY more variables in play that affect the ability to DO that...
The average is a MUCH better way to track progress. Also, WHEN and how quickly you settle into a good average is important, too.
It's not enough to look at (and boast of) TBL's. They are a valuable indicator of potential, because they're based on what you DID, broken down into smaller pieces. Drivers MUST work on working out WHY some sectors are better than others, WHICH sectors show the greatest variation, and design (and execute) a plan to implement, in a much more targeted way, smaller achievements. THEN, they can put it together... And set that PB on a more regular basis.
A lap time is a sum total of dozens, sometimes hundreds of individual skill (and task) executions.
Improve the quality of the skills, as well as increase the accuracy and detail of the task, and the lap time will improve.
When drivers don't do a "new" personal best, sometimes they take that as a setback, when there are MANY more variables in play that affect the ability to DO that...
The average is a MUCH better way to track progress. Also, WHEN and how quickly you settle into a good average is important, too.
It's not enough to look at (and boast of) TBL's. They are a valuable indicator of potential, because they're based on what you DID, broken down into smaller pieces. Drivers MUST work on working out WHY some sectors are better than others, WHICH sectors show the greatest variation, and design (and execute) a plan to implement, in a much more targeted way, smaller achievements. THEN, they can put it together... And set that PB on a more regular basis.
A lap time is a sum total of dozens, sometimes hundreds of individual skill (and task) executions.
Improve the quality of the skills, as well as increase the accuracy and detail of the task, and the lap time will improve.
__________________
-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
10-09-2016, 02:53 PM
#2664
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
^ yep ^
10-27-2016, 04:57 AM
#2665
Advanced
Hey Coach, great Q&A throughout this thread. I have a question for you. People seem to hate GR, what exactly is wrong with him and how do we keep guys like him away in our club?
10-27-2016, 08:34 AM
#2666
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Hi, Frank 
10-27-2016, 11:23 AM
#2668
Instructor
THIS is the problem with being "a prisoner to a lap time."
When drivers don't do a "new" personal best, sometimes they take that as a setback, when there are MANY more variables in play that affect the ability to DO that...
The average is a MUCH better way to track progress. Also, WHEN and how quickly you settle into a good average is important, too.
It's not enough to look at (and boast of) TBL's. They are a valuable indicator of potential, because they're based on what you DID, broken down into smaller pieces. Drivers MUST work on working out WHY some sectors are better than others, WHICH sectors show the greatest variation, and design (and execute) a plan to implement, in a much more targeted way, smaller achievements. THEN, they can put it together... And set that PB on a more regular basis.
A lap time is a sum total of dozens, sometimes hundreds of individual skill (and task) executions.
Improve the quality of the skills, as well as increase the accuracy and detail of the task, and the lap time will improve.
When drivers don't do a "new" personal best, sometimes they take that as a setback, when there are MANY more variables in play that affect the ability to DO that...
The average is a MUCH better way to track progress. Also, WHEN and how quickly you settle into a good average is important, too.
It's not enough to look at (and boast of) TBL's. They are a valuable indicator of potential, because they're based on what you DID, broken down into smaller pieces. Drivers MUST work on working out WHY some sectors are better than others, WHICH sectors show the greatest variation, and design (and execute) a plan to implement, in a much more targeted way, smaller achievements. THEN, they can put it together... And set that PB on a more regular basis.
A lap time is a sum total of dozens, sometimes hundreds of individual skill (and task) executions.
Improve the quality of the skills, as well as increase the accuracy and detail of the task, and the lap time will improve.
One thing I'm trying to get my mind around right now is how to break down and plan to close the gap between either PB or Avg lap time and my virtual best lap time. Currently I've got what seems like a huge difference between the two (4s in a 1:25s lap).
I've been concentrating on building consistency and it's helped a lot by reducing my variations lap to lap, but I've still got that big gap between actual best lap and virtual best. Any thoughts?
11-12-2016, 11:04 AM
#2669
Rennlist Member
Fantastic observation! In fact, I agree with you, when personal bests are outliers, it's more accidental. When we can drive a bunch of laps very close to our PB, that consistency shows that we are significantly improving our driving. And IMO this is where TBL's (theoretical best laps, provided by some data systems) are of real use.
THIS is the problem with being "a prisoner to a lap time."
When drivers don't do a "new" personal best, sometimes they take that as a setback, when there are MANY more variables in play that affect the ability to DO that...
The average is a MUCH better way to track progress. Also, WHEN and how quickly you settle into a good average is important, too.
It's not enough to look at (and boast of) TBL's. They are a valuable indicator of potential, because they're based on what you DID, broken down into smaller pieces. Drivers MUST work on working out WHY some sectors are better than others, WHICH sectors show the greatest variation, and design (and execute) a plan to implement, in a much more targeted way, smaller achievements. THEN, they can put it together... And set that PB on a more regular basis.
A lap time is a sum total of dozens, sometimes hundreds of individual skill (and task) executions.
Improve the quality of the skills, as well as increase the accuracy and detail of the task, and the lap time will improve.
When drivers don't do a "new" personal best, sometimes they take that as a setback, when there are MANY more variables in play that affect the ability to DO that...
The average is a MUCH better way to track progress. Also, WHEN and how quickly you settle into a good average is important, too.
It's not enough to look at (and boast of) TBL's. They are a valuable indicator of potential, because they're based on what you DID, broken down into smaller pieces. Drivers MUST work on working out WHY some sectors are better than others, WHICH sectors show the greatest variation, and design (and execute) a plan to implement, in a much more targeted way, smaller achievements. THEN, they can put it together... And set that PB on a more regular basis.
A lap time is a sum total of dozens, sometimes hundreds of individual skill (and task) executions.
Improve the quality of the skills, as well as increase the accuracy and detail of the task, and the lap time will improve.
Went out for what is probably my last event of the year. By shifting my focus to execution and fundamentals I've dropped my average lap time by about 1.5 seconds and ran 5 laps yesterday under my previous personal best time. Of course my GoPro and the universe conspired to fail to record exactly 5 laps yesterday, one of which is my new personal best.
Look ahead, be quick but smooth in and out of the brakes, get onto the throttle once and smoothly but still rapidly, look ahead some more. Well how about that, you drive quicker.
Thanks to Peter and Dave for participating in this forum and the other members who try and get everyone here to be better and do better. A special thanks to Manifold who spends too much time thinking about how I can get my crapbox Miata around a track more efficiently.
11-12-2016, 03:50 PM
#2670
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Awesome! Congrats!