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View Poll Results: Is there cheating in PCA Racing
No, We are all gentlemen
30
14.29%
Yes, Other people but not me
144
68.57%
Yes, I have a few secrets of my own
36
17.14%
Voters: 210. You may not vote on this poll

Do people cheat in PCA Club Racing?

 
Old 01-21-2011, 11:01 PM
  #46  
Astroman
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Originally Posted by Geoffrey View Post
As a scrutineer, I can say that most of the consistently fast, winning guys have had legal cars when we check them. When we do find issues, it is most often the mid to back pack guys.
Originally Posted by 38D View Post
One more scrutineer agreeing with the above.
I've done 8 races over the last 2 years. I don't recall anyone being bumped to another class or being disqualified in my class (or any other) at any of these races.

So either people aren't cheating OR you aren't very good at detecting it. Seriously, how often have you guys disqualified (or penalized) someone for cheating??

And the few instances of proven cheating that I've heard about invlolved a front running car. Again, at the races I've competed in, the slower cars don't get checked... why bother... we suck.
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Old 01-22-2011, 12:19 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Astroman View Post
I've done 8 races over the last 2 years. I don't recall anyone being bumped to another class or being disqualified in my class (or any other) at any of these races.

So either people aren't cheating OR you aren't very good at detecting it. Seriously, how often have you guys disqualified (or penalized) someone for cheating??

And the few instances of proven cheating that I've heard about invlolved a front running car. Again, at the races I've competed in, the slower cars don't get checked... why bother... we suck.
I can't think of a single race I've scrut'd where I haven't bumped a car to a different class and also done at least one DQ. If you haven't seen it you're either not going to many races or not paying attention.
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Old 01-22-2011, 12:39 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by 93 FireHawk 968 View Post
Very interesting thread......I truly believe that even those that do cheat cannot over compensate for any gaps in outright talent.
What you have to watch out for are talented cheaters.
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Old 01-22-2011, 07:43 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by 996TT_STEVO View Post
At the end of the day, your really only CHEATING YOURSELF.
Originally Posted by Larry Herman View Post
The thing is, if you cheat and win it is a hollow victory. If you cheat and lose, you just suck.
Agree, That's what I was meaning Larry
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:39 AM
  #50  
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So either people aren't cheating OR you aren't very good at detecting it. Seriously, how often have you guys disqualified (or penalized) someone for cheating??
Technically, we don't do the penalizing, that is the function of the race Steward, we only report out of compliance issues. Minor issues are a DQ and move to another class, Major ones are rare and have resulted in more serious outcomes.

As with Colin, I can think of only one race at CMP where I think we didn't find something worthy of a DQ.
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Old 01-22-2011, 09:18 AM
  #51  
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LOL... fun thread to read...

I used to run Penkse shock stickers on my IT car... just for fun.

I find those who tend to complain about cheating, not only don't often know too much about driving; they often don't even know how to set a car up properly! LOL

When we wrote the GTS rules - we know it'd be impossible to completely prevent cheating. If the pros can't prevent it, how could we? We chose, instead, to make it relatively unrewarding to do so - as best we could. That's also why there's the clause in the rules about cheating (dyno maps etc).

Enforcement is always a problem, no matter what.

My new rules set (DSR) is only 3.5 pages in the encyclopedia that is the SCCA GCR. Much better - no more worrying about washer bottles...
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Old 01-22-2011, 09:46 AM
  #52  
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The only change I'd like to see in PCA is an official protest action. Something similar to NASA where you can put up a bond and launch an official protest. The protest results in a scrut doing the full work up on a car (gears, cams, heads, etc.). You lose the protest, you lose the bond. Why couldn't that be instituted overnight? What happens now is that everybody sits around and bitches about somebody and sometimes they say something to the steward and sometimes a car gets looked at. Most of the time it's just guys stewing in the paddock or online. I know some are going to say you can protest now - what I'd like to see is an official action and process defined and followed by national that is evenly applied at all races.
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Old 01-22-2011, 10:43 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Sean F View Post
The only change I'd like to see in PCA is an official protest action. Something similar to NASA where you can put up a bond and launch an official protest. The protest results in a scrut doing the full work up on a car (gears, cams, heads, etc.). You lose the protest, you lose the bond. Why couldn't that be instituted overnight? What happens now is that everybody sits around and bitches about somebody and sometimes they say something to the steward and sometimes a car gets looked at. Most of the time it's just guys stewing in the paddock or online. I know some are going to say you can protest now - what I'd like to see is an official action and process defined and followed by national that is evenly applied at all races.
Propose an official rule change that describes the process.
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:02 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Larry Herman View Post
The thing is, if you cheat and win it is a hollow victory. If you cheat and lose, you just suck.
If I already know I suck, must I cheat?
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:09 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by 38D View Post
Propose an official rule change that describes the process.

Tried once before. Will try again. Want to help me write it
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:12 AM
  #56  
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See if you can't Pork Barrel in a passenger seat removal clause..
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:19 AM
  #57  
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I say some public humiliation might not be a bad idea. Announce it in the drivers meeting when there is a serious violation like illegal pistons, hot cams etc, non stock gears in the transmission, etc. Those are blatant violations, not unintended oversights.

Look at the pro series. When someone is caught, the violation, the fine, any suspension etc are announced.
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:20 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Sean F View Post
The only change I'd like to see in PCA is an official protest action. Something similar to NASA where you can put up a bond and launch an official protest. The protest results in a scrut doing the full work up on a car (gears, cams, heads, etc.).
Easy to write the rule, actually implementing another story. NASA has such a provision but in 10 years of racing with NASA, never saw the protest rule used in our classes. NASA really had no one present that had the technical skills or time to perform the inspection. Plus the driver is responsible for taking the car (engine, tranny or whatever) apart and for reassembly. How many of us are going to put up with that crap in the middle of a race weekend. I would take my car somewhere else to race where things aren't that serious. .
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:21 AM
  #59  
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Interesting data developing so far...
77% Don’t cheat but think others do
15% Profess to cheating themselves.

I find this very interesting, in that the shops I have talked with over the last couple of years all said the same thing. We can build it "stock" or we can build it to win. This was not just one shop, this is everyone I talked to. Add to that, read any racing biography and there are always tales of how rules were cleverly "bent", bending is part of the game as much as driving.

In my book (and I tend to be honest to a fault): If "bending" is the unwritten rule, then that adds to the fun creative part of the sport and needs to be done.... But if the majority of participants see the rules as absolute, then cheating is for cads and thieves and does not belong.... Just trying to figure where we are, as I plan to dive headlong back into racing in 2011.
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:26 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Carrera51 View Post
I say some public humiliation might not be a bad idea.
Sean humiliated me at Summit so now I feel I have a couple cheat races banked..
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