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View Poll Results: Is there cheating in PCA Racing
No, We are all gentlemen
30
14.29%
Yes, Other people but not me
144
68.57%
Yes, I have a few secrets of my own
36
17.14%
Voters: 210. You may not vote on this poll

Do people cheat in PCA Club Racing?

 
Old 01-21-2011, 06:05 PM
  #31  
Veloce Raptor
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Originally Posted by Geoffrey View Post
As a scrutineer, I can say that most of the consistently fast, winning guys have had legal cars when we check them. When we do find issues, it is most often the mid to back pack guys.
Interesting. Pretty much what I would expect, actually.









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Old 01-21-2011, 06:05 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by winders View Post
Every amateur endeavor I have participated in has had participants that cheat.

Autocrossing
Motorcycle Road Racing
Skeet
Golf

The activity I saw the most cheating in was golf. I learn more about the integrity of people playing golf with them than any other way.

And cheat for what? There is no real money to be made. All that winning can do is gain you the respect of your peers. What is that worth if you lose your self respect? Then again, guys that cheat don't seem to have any qualms about it so they have no self respect or honor. They just other people to think they are cool, I guess.

I try to pick race classes that allow for a fun car and have so few rules that it is difficult to cheat.

Scott
Not to get defensive, but when I played golf, I cheated solely to mitigate personal humiliation. I wasn't beating anyone.
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Old 01-21-2011, 06:12 PM
  #33  
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This is what I wrote in the 993 thread after my limited (1 race) experience:

I have only (finally!) done the Summit race after 6 years of DE but was interested if I could see any obvious differences in acceleration between cars (for obvious cheating) and I couldn't. For all of the talk of PCA cheating in the stock/prepared classes it wasn't obvious to me on the track... I know it is out there though. I have heard of a few cars w/ custom gearing and I saw a car or two with wheels that were wider than allowed, but on the track where it counts I didn't see any cars that were mechanically faster than my car in G or even H (most of the H cars were faster at the end of the straight at Summit which they should be). My opinion is you can be at the top of your class (consistent podium) with a 100% legal car.
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Old 01-21-2011, 06:13 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by 996TT_STEVO View Post
At the end of the day, your really only CHEATING YOURSELF.
The thing is, if you cheat and win it is a hollow victory. If you cheat and lose, you just suck.
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Old 01-21-2011, 06:49 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Larry Herman View Post
The thing is, if you cheat and win it is a hollow victory. If you cheat and lose, you just suck.
^^^^^^^!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 01-21-2011, 07:35 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Geoffrey View Post
As a scrutineer, I can say that most of the consistently fast, winning guys have had legal cars when we check them. When we do find issues, it is most often the mid to back pack guys.
Originally Posted by Dan Jacobs View Post
+1000
One more scrutineer agreeing with the above. At one race I scrut'd, there was a winning car everyone was complaining about having an illegal turbo. So after the race, I snaked the scope down the intake and it was bone stock. Of course all the guys that lost just moved onto the next part that must be illegal.


Originally Posted by GTgears View Post
I have run gearcharts for people that are 1 tooth off stock.
Next time make sure those folks know that PCA does have the tools to check for gears. It's pretty easy actually. We basically bolt an angle gauge to the hub, and then turn the engine over...check against the chart and voila, instant gear ratio. I've found a few ring & pinions with it.


Originally Posted by onefastviking View Post
Cheating is one of the reasons I like NASA GTS so much. It's HP to weight, have scales and a dyno and it's pretty simple. Do anything you want to the car as long as you fall in the HP/wt ratio.
Don't kid yourself. I know of a car that ran NASA GTS that had a micro switch in the door handle that would switch the ECU maps. Pull up the door handle 3 times, you get the special fast map, pull it up just 1 time, it reverts back to the normal dyno map.


Originally Posted by jscott82 View Post
In your opinion, do you think they just do a better job of hiding it? ie: how do you check the cams without tearing into the motor?
Checking cams is dirt simple, only have to pull a valve cover. And it ain't hard to make sure the pulley hasn't been reindexed either.
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Old 01-21-2011, 07:57 PM
  #37  
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Oh I know, and I have seen some there already as well, but in a class where everything is open to play with it makes cheating happen a little less often.
Want a short ratio gearbox ? Ok, it's legal. Want to have a bigger engine ? Ok, it's legal too. Want to bolt on a turbo, supercharger, bigger brakes, active aero, etc etc ? Ok, all those are legal also !



Originally Posted by 38D View Post


Don't kid yourself. I know of a car that ran NASA GTS that had a micro switch in the door handle that would switch the ECU maps. Pull up the door handle 3 times, you get the special fast map, pull it up just 1 time, it reverts back to the normal dyno map.

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Old 01-21-2011, 08:39 PM
  #38  
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Very interesting thread......I truly believe that even those that do cheat cannot over compensate for any gaps in outright talent.
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Old 01-21-2011, 09:03 PM
  #39  
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Agree with Viking....NASA GTS is the way to go. I originally built my first race car for USTCC and then ran it in NASA PT....talk about cheaters!!! That's why I switched to GTS, rules are simple, and I've never been to a race without a dyno and scales.
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Old 01-21-2011, 09:04 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by 93 FireHawk 968 View Post
Very interesting thread......I truly believe that even those that do cheat cannot over compensate for any gaps in outright talent.
Yeah, and at the same time, they hold themselves back by focusing on the car, and not on their own driving.
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Old 01-21-2011, 09:13 PM
  #41  
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OMG!!!! You guys are telling me that cheating takes place in racing? Say it ain`t so.

Explanation is easy: EGO.
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Old 01-21-2011, 09:17 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by paradisenb View Post
OMG!!!! You guys are telling me that cheating takes place in racing? Say it ain`t so.

Explanation is easy: EGO.

OMG!!!! You're telling me that ego plays a part in racing? Nofa king weigh!!!









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Old 01-21-2011, 09:21 PM
  #43  
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When I first started racing, I took my DE car to my local track (Lime Rock) and got my *** handed to me. I think I came in second to last overall in my races. While I ran fast lap times for my DE events, it was pathetically slow for the racing environment. I thought that everybody must be cheating.

However, at that event, I started to notice a couple of things: my car was still a DE car in that it had a few mods, but nothing close to what was allowed by the rules. The car was about 200 pounds overweight, still had stock headers and muffler, and the suspension was better than stock, but not a full race suspension.

By the next race (Watkins Glen), I fixed all of that, and I improved to about mid-pack. I was still convinced that some people were cheating (the people in front of me). What made me think this was that I was positive that another racer and I would leave a corner at the same time, and then he'd blow my doors off on the next straight.

Fast forward a couple of years, and I got better and suddenly I was winning some races and being on the podium on many others. The racers who were blowing my doors off were suddenly only even with me on the straights. What I found out was that I was leaving lots of time on the table, and these racers figured out how to get a good run on me. Now, I'm not leaving that time on the table, and it seems that among the front runners, there is no clear HP advantage between competitors. In other words, the better driver wins.

I agree that some people may be cheating (and I've had people basically tell me that they are - usually backmarkers), but I figure if I'm beating them, what do I care?
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Old 01-21-2011, 09:22 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Veloce Raptor View Post
OMG!!!! You're telling me that ego plays a part in racing? Nofa king weigh!!!
That`s the rumor going around. I'm sure its true, I read it on the inter-tubes.
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Old 01-21-2011, 09:41 PM
  #45  
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In your opinion, do you think they just do a better job of hiding it? ie: how do you check the cams without tearing into the motor?
The scrutineering kit has a variety of tools to check a variety of compliance items.
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