Thundermoose

Joe - I only watched 10 minutes. I don't see what you see. Any place that I saw E car pull away was usually where F car had to give up something on corner and lost exit speed.

Is there a specific time frame you are referring to?

987part

Joe

2 things you have to know

Top guys in E aka evan, clark, dan, mark, jim, they have over 10-15 years of exp in car and racing. They drive to the limit compare vs a midpack guy. Some of them have done semi-pro racing too. Must of them are also instructors.

I raced againts them in my F back in 2015 and i was in front. No way these guys cheat from my point of view.


Joe, did you buy dipietro or clemens old car?

You should be able to do at least their time or better

JP66

You're totally right Frank. I was basing my thoughts on the tables below, but there are a thousand variables that could explain the close speeds between E and F other than just power.




No doubt the E guys are the best drivers I have watched on YouTube in PCA, and I know I'm just jealous that I can't come close to that level of driving yet. I suppose it may just be the difference between a street motor versus a purpose rebuilt race engine which is running at 105% of it's original spec as opposed to 90% of original spec.

Yes, I did buy Jim's car. Trouble is although I got close at Lime Rock to his time I was a good 4 seconds off the pace at WGI and that made me start watching the F car video. His qualifying lap was 2:09! I am depressed thinking I need to find another 8 seconds next spring.

Frank 993 C4S

Joe - it's actually quite easy .... you get there step by step. As you are already doing - Have your coaches run baseline laps and look for the low hanging fruit for improvement. Get help from Speedsport stetting up your car to allow you to feel more comfortable with brake release and throttle application points. Then you improve by 1/10 of a sec here and there.

Don't forget, that it's all about racing others and having fun - not laptimes. The guy with the average fastest lap time always wins.

RSRRacer

Watch the C4 car in front of me from about 6:45 to end of back straight. I'm in a C6 car (that won the race from about 8th place).

No, no I never think anyone cheats in PCA racing. He must have a really, really, really fresh motor.

For comparison, look at the leading C4 car at about 11:15. Thats more typical.

forklift

RE: published power and weights. These are (mostly) factory ratings - meaning street exhausts w/ cats and....factory motors.

Also consider ***chips are now free for OBD-1 cars.

New headers, exhaust and chip will zoom past the factory published ratings (which are flywheel btw, not rear wheel) quickly. Depending on the car this is an extra...lot of hp.

Then there is the rebuild. I wouldn't know since my newused motor is still unopened but that is more hp - and can be legally done by raising the compression to the factory spec which was also often underrated by the factory.

Lets look at actual p/w for a few cars in E, F & G:

I know dynos vary etc. but I'm hearing that the legal -but built to the limit of legal 3.2s in E are in the 235 range - rwhp. Dunno if this is the case or not but if so with a weight of 2,779 that is a p/w of 11.82 - edit, let's go w/ 231, from S Wong's site: "The following run is from an '86 3.2 Carrera live tuned on a Dynojet 424x. For POC racing, the engine is completely stock with the exception of a set of custom stepped racing headers and open exhaust. With our program custom tuned and developed at the dyno for race fuel, the engine produces an outstanding 231 rwhp at 6200 rpm. Factoring a 15% drivetrain loss, this engine produces 274 crank hp." 2,779 / 231 = 12.030



For a 03-04 Boxster S - A buddy used to own one and got 256 rw with just a header and exhaust change. At a weight of 3,060 that is a p/w of 11.93. Most water cooled motors are replaced, not rebuilt from what I have heard and read - so don't know how much is on the table here for a rebuild.

My G RSA w a chip and exhaust runs 257 rw w/ a weight of 2,910 = 11.32

So all of those are pretty close and I'd take 15s at the Glen any day so I'd put the 3.2 slightly ahead here - at the Glen anyway as the RSA w/ a 3.33 r&p is basically f'd in the entire boot.

I have heard (and this from owners of the cars) of 964s running 275-280 rwhp or more in G after a rebuild so at that point G cars are well ahead as they should be. Looking forward to getting mine done someday but leakdowns are still fine last time I checked.

rmag

Jim - Rules are based off factory HP. Aren't those at the crank vs wheel? If so your P/W calculations are off and need to take into consideration drivetrain loss. So for E, assuming a 15% drivetrain loss, that would be 2779/(235*1.15) or ~10.3.

forklift

Yeah didn't explain that well - but did those off of rwhp even though the rule book is FW.

2779/235 = 11.82 - based off of rw. Since drivetrain loss seems to be disputed (like everything else) I just skipped it and went w/ rw, although if using 15% for all 3 would have been fine - but that's more math for me.

Der ABT

That yellow car is obviously cheating, that car should be DQd and destroyed.......the f clearly never caught up to him before the braking zones......yellow car just parked in the corners
Silver car is hupfer...he has a few hours in that car

I'll bet if you look at the data you would understand more.
Commitment to throttle as early as possible makes a huge difference in exit speed. You also have weight differences ....just alot of variables

Strongly suggest working with a coach. They will generally open you eyes, get rid of some old DE habits and significantly shorten the time it takes to get fast.

Or learn to self coach with data...Krause showed me how powerful the Vbox is and it's now my favorite piece of equipment


As for hp....235 ....i wish....ive heard of a few high 220 to just over 230 but haven't seen the dyno and would guess it's more **** talking.
My yellow car had like 285hp and 330tq with the nitrou......i mean fire extinguisher

forklift

damn ****etalking. Yes the E number was someone in the paddock, not a E car owner. G numbers above were from owners. Edit - corrected post to 231 rwhp.

Anyway, wanted Joe to have a better understanding of PCA ratings vs. real world. The RSA/ C2 G weight is always fun to discuss (old D 2,760).

But agree about driving of course and go back to my post he quoted above, driver, driver, driver - repeat. I'm not 2 seconds off my best times right now because I lost some hp somewhere.

brownan

RSA/C2 G weight is too low. Going to lobby to make it 3082 like those of us with Caymans in G (of which I think I'm the only one). You 911 G cars are too fast off the corners. Have to just sit back and wait for you guys to spin them.

Frank 993 C4S

It would be easier to argue for the Caymans to run a lower weight than for others to increase it as it is just one of you right now. Just present a thoughtful argument and don't base it on stock hp/weight ratios. Data would obviously help. Not sure whether we ever took data from your car for comparison - just request to have it done and compared at your next race.

Der ABT

you say g cars too fast off the corner,
they could probably argue your brakes are too stong into the corner or mid corner....thats the beauty of multiple car types.

I think the G class cayman will be really hard car to beat once you have it all figured out,
i was behind and in front of you alot at Summit (red E car now) and i coach another cayman....that platform is really great and ill bet there is still alot of time left in that car.....

ProCoach

It took Jim and I many days (over a few years) to get him there, so don't fret, Joe. He did it, and so can you. You've got the tool... NO excuses.

You just have to take what you're doing apart and start with the best execution of fundamental skills.

Most of your deficit, I am sure, is a lack of commitment to throttle speed, brake zone compression/placement and incrementally raising entry speeds.

In order to commit, you need to know EXACTLY where you're going to go, and WHAT you're going to do WHEN you get there. You're not there. Not even close.

No coach is going to get you there saying "I do this, therefore you can do this." It's going to take you building a belief system, perhaps with the help of someone who can help guide you through that process, that allows you such complete knowledge and confidence, that you CAN COMMIT.

THIS is what the front running E (and SPB, among other) guys are SO good at.

I know few drivers with more self-confidence than Clarke and Evan...

987part

Jo

Watch this minute clip video, me trying hard to pass.

Doug diepetro in front, so we can see about same hp , car was built by same shop like yours

Its all about following a guy sometimes, open your eyes, vision, commitment to throttle.
Our boxster are easy to drive to the limit honestly.

1st time at VIR for me, made 99.8% of trackrecord since doug did the new record the same weekend lol