hf1

I think I got it. Rookies and sore losers support dynos -- real racers just take corners faster.

StoogeMoe

Very well said.

If you're in a Spec class and aren't doing well, it's you. Drill that into your head. Don't make excuses. Figure out why you're slow and fix you. It's all up to you you you!

dbf73

not really - just means the cheaters didn't participate in the survey or are not on RL

MSR Racer

good point. Sampling error!!!

Frank 993 C4S

That's irrelevant and this was also a consideration when SPB ECU swaps were discussed last year. The spirit in PCA is that your car should not be damaged by whatever scrutineering is performed (most racers will agree with this).

You are assuming that there is resistance to dynos based on what you have read in this thread. Why don't you familiarize yourself with the PCA Club Racing class structures and then make a comprehensive formal proposal for a dyno program together with a budget and manpower plan and see where that goes? There is an open comment period and I look forward to your submission.

Well said! I know exactly who you are taking about and if you look at his data (he gets checked often) you would find that he has higher corner min speeds, earlier throttle application, a better brake profile plus mosre consistent execution than almost anybody else.

racecar

38D

There are a lot of folks racing that have hundreds of races under their belt. It unrealistic to think that someone with only a few will be just as fast. And yes, there are some folks that race for years that just can't accept that some folks are faster than they are. I think I've maybe lost 3 races of the ~100 I've done to someone I wasn't sure was running a legal car; the rest of the time I was just just out driven or out setup.

amso3

I joined up as a PCA scruit a few years ago. I have been doing track data for years and was concerned that the scruits would improperly read data being gathered. I am happy to say that the PCA scruits do a great job, thanks to training and experience using the equipment. I've worked as a scruit a few races and can say that a significant effort is being made by the Sterwards and Scruits to keep thinks honest. I have personally looked at data and, like Frank said, it is amazing that those "cheaters" drive thru the corners faster than others in a similar class, like SPB or SP 996. I have seen some amazing driving via data. However, every now and then PCA finds someone outside the limits of the rules. A couple things I have personally found is improper gearing. This wasn't due to intentional cheating, it was in cars that are 25 ish years old and who know what these gcars have gone thru in the past. These cars change hands a number of times and usuall are sold as "Class legal". The current "Gear Checker" will identify cars like these over time and get everyone back into legal status. I really think PCA racers are feeling better about the cars being legal.

LuigiVampa

People thinking other people are cheating is, in my opinion, the leading cause of cheating. If you walk around thinking anyone beating you is cheating, as someone else said, you become "that guy".

Being beat by a guy who runs a clean race makes me look at my data and hire a coach, not hurl accusations of cheating.

I have not had a case where I believed someone who beat me was cheating and know the reverse is true as well.

That being said, in the words of Ronald Reagan: "Trust, but verify."

I'm in favor of increased scrutes and publicly listing names and infractions. If someone is 5lbs underweight that is a world of difference from having the wrong engine or gears. We all know it.

Veloce Raptor

Well said Luigi

forklift

For G - I've heard things but on the track I haven't seen much difference in motor - some but not much. I did enjoy racing Doug C because we were dead f'ing even in a straight line (now he's in E and I'm on track hiatus). My motor is a "junkyard" RSA motor btw, unopened, but w/ chip and headers.

I've heard of some pretty crazy dynos out there for some of the G 964s but have been on track w/ them and only 1 pulls me at Summit - but not by a lot and I'm down on hp just from being Stuttgart stock. Will stay that way until leakdowns tell me to rebuild.

There is 1 out there that zingged by me up the toe a few years back - shift points seemed very odd which makes sense since that is where a 964 really, really, really sucks - 60-65 mph corners - unless you have custom gears.

LuigiVampa

Just so I don't sound so sanctimonious I will say that while I have never accused anyone of cheating mechanically I have had a few conversations with other drivers about dangerous or unsportsmanlike driving. Being dive bombed or driven off the track is not fun but it happens for a variety of reasons and it is not always because the other guy is trying to be unsportsmanlike. Sometimes they just are not aware.

Its hard not to get red mist when it happens but I think I learned my lesson last year that it is better to try to talk with the other driver rather than get all bent out of shape. You can solve a lot with a conversation.

Everyone who knows me knows that I am very zen.

mmuller

I have witnessed first hand a few things that I can only describe as cheating, but most of them where off track. Like a car that sets a new lap record and gets shown the scales sign on the way in. His pit was opposite mine and I saw the car get a full jug of gas before going to scales. Or the car that won two sprints and got shown the scales sign and while he is sitting in line for the scales, drinks 5 bottles of water. He was legal by 1 pound when weighed. Saw a SPB spin both wheel rear wheels in a straight line in the rain and I know my car won't do that with it's factory stock open diff.

So, are there cheaters? Yeah, there are because I have personally witnessed it. Have I seen many cars pull me on track? Not really.

My point is, cheating doesn't always happen on track or is as apparent in the car. I laugh when I witnessed each of these. Only people they are cheating is themselves with their shallow victories.

Yellow996

Of course, the one exception is that we ALL knew that Yonker cheated.



Miss you, Yonk!!

Lemming

There are still issues, there were a number of NASA racers that cheated the dyno via the ECU by tying into the ABS sensors. That is, ECU parameters are different if front wheels are moving vs standing still.