View Poll Results: Who will win?
Felipe Massa
0
0%
Robert Kubica
0
0%
Nico Rosberg
0
0%
Michael Schumacher
0
0%
Rubens Barrichello
0
0%
Adrian Sutil
0
0%
Kamui Kobayashi
0
0%
Viantonio Luizzi
0
0%
Vitaly Petrov
0
0%
Nico Hulkenburg
0
0%
Sebastien Buemi
0
0%
Nick Heidfeld
0
0%
Jamie Algersuari
0
0%
Heikki Kovalainen
0
0%
Jarno Trulli
0
0%
Bruno Senna
0
0%
Lucas di Grassi
0
0%
Timo Glock
0
0%
Sakon Yamamoto
0
0%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll
2010 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix (the final round)
11-10-2010, 12:08 PM
#61
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Raj, That's okay if you feel that by any means necessary to win a title, even if it's cheating. It would be par for the course as it relates to Alonso and his faux career.
The sad thing is that he is talented behind the wheel and doesn't need to resort to cheating, but he just can't help himself.
The sad thing is that he is talented behind the wheel and doesn't need to resort to cheating, but he just can't help himself.
11-10-2010, 12:10 PM
#62
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My mistake. I had a friend with the last name Frye, so I don't notice it when I type.
How long of a time out break would you like? I'm pretty sure there is a button for that.
I never mentioned Massa, I believe I was referring to the difference in development/pace between Ferrari and McLaren.
If I average (I will skip other statistical stuff like median, sigma, and a bunchof other funny letters and symbols) Alonso's starting grid (qualifying) position, based on the data you posted above, I come up with the following (please check my math, arithmetic is tough at times):
Alonso's average qualifying/grid position before Fry: 8.33, zero poles
Alonso's average qualifying/grid position after Fry: 3.55, 2 poles
I have skipped finishing position to remove strategy, uncertainties, mechanical/crash/DNF. Qualifing should be a good indication of a car and driver's pace, especially in the current format.
Again, no attempt to discredit his driving, I never said that in this recent discussion.
However, it does make one wonder why Alonso's supposed superior development skills did little to the car before the arrival of Fry to the team, especially in a non testing era of F1, but clearly did after the arrival of Fry. I am sure it is just a coincidence; it happens.
Raj, please go ahead and name the ignorant individuals, I hate to guess.
As for loved ones, some individuals consider their loved ones to be memories and a headstone at a cemetery, which does make it hard to ascertain feelings.
I am incapable of math and other advanced concepts, but it does appear as though there is a simple correlation between Alonso's (average) qualifying position before and after Fry joined the team.
If there is/was another event in the 2010 Ferrari team that might explain the improvement in performance, I would be interested in hearing more about that.
How long of a time out break would you like? I'm pretty sure there is a button for that.
I never mentioned Massa, I believe I was referring to the difference in development/pace between Ferrari and McLaren.
Little Info from Wiki:
Ferrari: 2010-present
After his departure from McLaren was announced on May 14, 2010,[6] on June 22, it was announced that Fry was to join the Ferrari team as assistant technical director from July 1.
So lets take a look at how the drivers fared from July 1, which is very aggressive considering we are assuming that he made his impact on day 1!
11 Jul Great Britain Silverstone (1st race after Fry's move to Ferrari)
Fernando Alonso Results 2010
Race Date Grid Finish Pts Total pts
Bahrain 14th March 3 1 25.0 25
Australia 28th March 3 4 12.0 37
Malaysia 4th April 19 13 0.0 37
China 18th April 3 4 12.0 49
Spain 9th May 4 2 18.0 67
Monaco 16th May 24 6 8.0 75
Turkey 30th May 12 8 4.0 79
Canada 13th June 3 3 15.0 94
Europe 27th June 4 8 4.0 98
British 11th July 3 14 0.0 98
Germany 25th July 2 1 25.0 123
Hungary 1st August 3 2 18.0 141
Belgium 29th August 10 ret 0.0 141
Italy 12th September 1 1 25.0 166
Singapore 26th September 1 1 25.0 191
Japan 10th October 4 3 15.0 206
Korea 24th October 3 1 25.0 231
Brazil 7th November 5 3 15.0 246
.
Ferrari: 2010-present
After his departure from McLaren was announced on May 14, 2010,[6] on June 22, it was announced that Fry was to join the Ferrari team as assistant technical director from July 1.
So lets take a look at how the drivers fared from July 1, which is very aggressive considering we are assuming that he made his impact on day 1!
11 Jul Great Britain Silverstone (1st race after Fry's move to Ferrari)
Fernando Alonso Results 2010
Race Date Grid Finish Pts Total pts
Bahrain 14th March 3 1 25.0 25
Australia 28th March 3 4 12.0 37
Malaysia 4th April 19 13 0.0 37
China 18th April 3 4 12.0 49
Spain 9th May 4 2 18.0 67
Monaco 16th May 24 6 8.0 75
Turkey 30th May 12 8 4.0 79
Canada 13th June 3 3 15.0 94
Europe 27th June 4 8 4.0 98
British 11th July 3 14 0.0 98
Germany 25th July 2 1 25.0 123
Hungary 1st August 3 2 18.0 141
Belgium 29th August 10 ret 0.0 141
Italy 12th September 1 1 25.0 166
Singapore 26th September 1 1 25.0 191
Japan 10th October 4 3 15.0 206
Korea 24th October 3 1 25.0 231
Brazil 7th November 5 3 15.0 246
.
Alonso's average qualifying/grid position before Fry: 8.33, zero poles
Alonso's average qualifying/grid position after Fry: 3.55, 2 poles
I have skipped finishing position to remove strategy, uncertainties, mechanical/crash/DNF. Qualifing should be a good indication of a car and driver's pace, especially in the current format.
Again, no attempt to discredit his driving, I never said that in this recent discussion.
However, it does make one wonder why Alonso's supposed superior development skills did little to the car before the arrival of Fry to the team, especially in a non testing era of F1, but clearly did after the arrival of Fry. I am sure it is just a coincidence; it happens.
As for loved ones, some individuals consider their loved ones to be memories and a headstone at a cemetery, which does make it hard to ascertain feelings.
If there is/was another event in the 2010 Ferrari team that might explain the improvement in performance, I would be interested in hearing more about that.
11-10-2010, 12:10 PM
#63
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11-10-2010, 12:12 PM
#64
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Raj, That's okay if you feel that by any means necessary to win a title, even if it's cheating. It would be par for the course as it relates to Alonso and his faux career.
The sad thing is that he is talented behind the wheel and doesn't need to resort to cheating, but he just can't help himself.
The sad thing is that he is talented behind the wheel and doesn't need to resort to cheating, but he just can't help himself.
You guys are singling him out as a cheat, which is incorrect. Ferrari has had this policy for yrs and they stick to what works for them. It was up to the FIA to put a stop to it and they decided to fine them instead.
11-10-2010, 12:15 PM
#65
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Wow Lewis. All BS aside, the qualifying position for ALonso before and after Fry is unmistakably significant.
8.33 vs. 3.55 cannot be understanded.
If Fry stays on with Ferrari for a number of years, it could neutralize the Newey affect at Red Bull.
I've got a feeling that Ferrari is going to get out of the starting gate a lot faster next year and coupled with their support of a clear #1 will wipe up the competition vs. Red Bull or McLaren.
8.33 vs. 3.55 cannot be understanded.
If Fry stays on with Ferrari for a number of years, it could neutralize the Newey affect at Red Bull.
I've got a feeling that Ferrari is going to get out of the starting gate a lot faster next year and coupled with their support of a clear #1 will wipe up the competition vs. Red Bull or McLaren.
11-10-2010, 12:16 PM
#66
Ironman 140.6
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11-10-2010, 12:17 PM
#67
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I am incapable of math and other advanced concepts, but it does appear as though there is a simple correlation between Alonso's (average) qualifying position before and after Fry joined the team.
If there is/was another event in the 2010 Ferrari team that might explain the improvement in performance, I would be interested in hearing more about that.
If there is/was another event in the 2010 Ferrari team that might explain the improvement in performance, I would be interested in hearing more about that.
Fry by himself did not make the team better and if he did, why did it not affect Massa's performance. You want to credit Fry for all the good results Alonso delivered, which is not 100% true.
11-10-2010, 12:19 PM
#68
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11-10-2010, 12:20 PM
#69
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Pete, that's ok if Button feels this way.
Hammy and Whitmarsh, both have no issues with it and consider him a legit WDC, if he wins. There will always be people with opinions.
Actually, most drivers don't have an issue with it since they know that every team has team orders. Mark Webber has gone on the record to state this as well.
Hammy and Whitmarsh, both have no issues with it and consider him a legit WDC, if he wins. There will always be people with opinions.
Actually, most drivers don't have an issue with it since they know that every team has team orders. Mark Webber has gone on the record to state this as well.
Raj You expect those without eyes to see , those without ears to hear ... I'm happy they see the Forest and not the trees makes for easy pickings...
Yes Amigos only Massa received team orders this year , when he was told to give back a position he never won. Massa is racing back markers in a Ferrari and the clowns still whine about it . The irony of the Finn discussing this when Raikkonen on a course for failure was given help via team orders from as far back as France in 07 ...
Ohhh I love the amigos .. "BURP" .......
How many WDC did Raikkonen win again ? .....
11-10-2010, 12:22 PM
#70
Ironman 140.6
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I agree that F1 is a team sport and the FIA rules on this are more than a little convoluted and silly, but let's not pretend that Alonso didn't want to be let by (he clearly did).
11-10-2010, 12:23 PM
#71
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He did not cheat and has not cheated. This was a decision made by the team. He benefitted from it, which is true but the decision was not his. Everyone wants to make him out to be the bad guy, but the truth is, Ferrari would be nowhere, if it wasn't for his driving. They realized this and felt the need to support him and made Massa move over. How does that make Alonso the cheat?
You guys are singling him out as a cheat, which is incorrect. Ferrari has had this policy for yrs and they stick to what works for them. It was up to the FIA to put a stop to it and they decided to fine them instead.
You guys are singling him out as a cheat, which is incorrect. Ferrari has had this policy for yrs and they stick to what works for them. It was up to the FIA to put a stop to it and they decided to fine them instead.
The other point is that Alonso ALWAYS BENEFITS FROM ALL THE CHEATING HE AND HIS TEAM HAVE BEEN ACCUSED OF.
1. Spy gate -- Alonso didn't steal the dossier, but benefitted from the testing and pre-knowledge of the documents including the race strategy of when Ferrari would pit in Australia.
2. Alonso didn't crash, but benefited from Pinquet crashing and bringing out a safety car at JUST THE RIGHT TIME.
3. Alonso Benefited from Massa being told to pull over and let him by. It's not a question of IF Ferrari cheated, because it was established they did as per the regulations on team orders. It's a matter of Alonso being allowed to retain the ill gotten 7 points from the cheating. Please remember at the time, ALonso was 31 points behind and Bernie wanted him to catch up to tighten the WDC race and make the "Show" better. Well what Bernie wants, Bernie gets.
Please note all the above examples involved cheating that BENEFITED ALONSO in the past 3 years. Thusfar, they have not results in a WDC for him and hopefully will not again this weekend.
11-10-2010, 12:27 PM
#72
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You need to re-watch the tape. He complained on the radio more than once that he was faster than Massa (but could not get by).
I agree that F1 is a team sport and the FIA rules on this are more than a little convoluted and silly, but let's not pretend that Alonso didn't want to be let by (he clearly did).
I agree that F1 is a team sport and the FIA rules on this are more than a little convoluted and silly, but let's not pretend that Alonso didn't want to be let by (he clearly did).
A Schumacher nut cracker discussing cheating ...........
Pete , Ray .. Stupidity is like quick sand stop wiggling ....
11-10-2010, 12:27 PM
#73
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You need to re-watch the tape. He complained on the radio more than once that he was faster than Massa (but could not get by).
I agree that F1 is a team sport and the FIA rules on this are more than a little convoluted and silly, but let's not pretend that Alonso didn't want to be let by (he clearly did).
I agree that F1 is a team sport and the FIA rules on this are more than a little convoluted and silly, but let's not pretend that Alonso didn't want to be let by (he clearly did).
If I was Monty, I would boot them both.
11-10-2010, 12:29 PM
#74
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Massa has been the test mule for Alonso with parts etc on Friday testing. He also does not get the same updates that ALonso does. Couple that with the punch in the stomach of being told to pull over, and his spirit has been broken.
What would have happened if:
1. Alonso was not given the point by in Germany.
2. If Alonso was told to move over for Massa?
Answer: All hell would have broke loose.
What would have happened if:
1. Alonso was not given the point by in Germany.
2. If Alonso was told to move over for Massa?
Answer: All hell would have broke loose.
11-10-2010, 12:30 PM
#75
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This reminds me of the Bill Clinton line of "define cheat" or similar. It could be argued that ALonso DID make the call because during the race, his radio transmissions to the pit wall indicated he wanted by. The team made it happen.
The other point is that Alonso ALWAYS BENEFITS FROM ALL THE CHEATING HE AND HIS TEAM HAVE BEEN ACCUSED OF.
1. Spy gate -- Alonso didn't steal the dossier, but benefitted from the testing and pre-knowledge of the documents including the race strategy of when Ferrari would pit in Australia.
2. Alonso didn't crash, but benefited from Pinquet crashing and bringing out a safety car at JUST THE RIGHT TIME.
3. Alonso Benefited from Massa being told to pull over and let him by. It's not a question of IF Ferrari cheated, because it was established they did as per the regulations on team orders. It's a matter of Alonso being allowed to retain the ill gotten 7 points from the cheating. Please remember at the time, ALonso was 31 points behind and Bernie wanted him to catch up to tighten the WDC race and make the "Show" better. Well what Bernie wants, Bernie gets.
Please note all the above examples involved cheating that BENEFITED ALONSO in the past 3 years. Thusfar, they have not results in a WDC for him and hopefully will not again this weekend.
The other point is that Alonso ALWAYS BENEFITS FROM ALL THE CHEATING HE AND HIS TEAM HAVE BEEN ACCUSED OF.
1. Spy gate -- Alonso didn't steal the dossier, but benefitted from the testing and pre-knowledge of the documents including the race strategy of when Ferrari would pit in Australia.
2. Alonso didn't crash, but benefited from Pinquet crashing and bringing out a safety car at JUST THE RIGHT TIME.
3. Alonso Benefited from Massa being told to pull over and let him by. It's not a question of IF Ferrari cheated, because it was established they did as per the regulations on team orders. It's a matter of Alonso being allowed to retain the ill gotten 7 points from the cheating. Please remember at the time, ALonso was 31 points behind and Bernie wanted him to catch up to tighten the WDC race and make the "Show" better. Well what Bernie wants, Bernie gets.
Please note all the above examples involved cheating that BENEFITED ALONSO in the past 3 years. Thusfar, they have not results in a WDC for him and hopefully will not again this weekend.
He also light filled his tank in Singapore
He also made Lewis not give up his position in Hungary
He also put a gun to the guys head to steal the docs from Ferrari.
Alonso did it all, didn't he.