RickBetterley

This thread is pretty scary when you think about it; how many of us are driving around with cages that are supposed to be safe but maybe aren't?
Same observation about harness installation.
I am going to take a good close look at both.
My cage was built for the previous owner and fits me just fine (though I am going to look again), but when a friend drove the car, the knee bar was too close to him.
Good thread, Frank.

RedlineMan

Oh Gads!

Just too funny. Common misconception. Unless you are driving around in space staring at the clouds, or there is a stoplight on your local track, you will not "see" a properly placed header tube. Another thing to consider is that for those that prefer a wide view mirror, it is not really possible to get those mirrors far enough away from you - with a good solid vibration free mounting - with a rear mounted header tube. The forward positioned tube makes Wink mounting MUCH easier and more effective.

You might note that this car - like many - already had a "blind" at the top of the windshield. As you can see, the tube does not block any available view... as if I would even do that.

mark kibort

Are you kidding me? "Doesnt look good"?? That is the last car I would want to be in, in an accident, IN ANY DIRECTION. Guys, his head is resting on the front cross bar!!! Think what will happen in an impact. kiss your neck good bye!
its common sense you need some space between your helmet and the roll cage bars in front. thats just cage building 101.
Take a cutting wheel and cut out that bar, and weld one in, at least 1 foot further front wards. before you race again.
watch that video tape of that lemons racer at sears with the kindof, front impact. watch how much movement that guys body and head goes through. if he had this kind of cage, he would probably be dead right now.

Here is the 5 freeze frame sequence pictures of the guy in that lemons crash going into the wall at a 45 degree angle. enjoy!

gums

Guys, I got this worked out. Spent the whole afternoon repositioning everything; seat, belts, nets, I feel like such a twit! There was so much room to gain! Now I just love sitting in it, everything came together. I'll get a new picture up soon to show. Rennlist has proven a great resource on this. Thanks to all. (still considering a better cage over the winter)

gums

OK, I revamped the whole thing, now I can't wait to drive it again. Everything fits and feels so much better; the belts, the Hans, the seat, my legs....Got head clearance, and I'm seated lower. Can't believe I was overlooking all this....

RedlineMan

Ummm....

Yah! That looks just a tad better. Four caveats;

1) The header tube is still in the wrong place, and you will still likely hit it. Bolt in cage? No surprise.
2) Your side net is now too high. Too much helmet, not enough shoulder. It will block your side view also.
3) Your shoulder belt angles are now screwed up, not that I'm betting they were good before. Off the low bar, through the too-low-for-you seat holes, then rather dramatically up and over the HANS. That not only gives an interrupted belt path, but likely will give too much spine compression to be comfortable let alone optimal in performance.
4) All other things being equal, A more upright seating position actually REDUCES chest loads during an impact.

Sorry... it's what I do. It's like 15-ball juggling with your health & safety. Welcome to my world!

That would feel too reclined for me, but I have a lot longer leg/torso ratio than you do and am 4" taller to boot. I like to sit a lot more upright. Your arm reach looks just within the range that offers adequate steering reaction leverage. One advantage is that you will have a lot more "butt cup" with the seat laid back like that; Yet another of the important parameters in getting things set up correctly.

Sean F

what John said....you've still got issues there Frank. Time to take it to a pro and get it sorted out.

333pg333

Frank apologies for this, but John could you give your opinion if this cage gives better - worse coverage than Frank's?
I'd love to get one of yours custom fitted but I can't afford to fly you to Australia to do so. I'm thinking of ordering this setup. It comes as a kit out of the UK.

https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...4-project.html
http://www.customcages.co.uk/Rollcag...ype=Multipoint

RedlineMan

Hey;

- Ingress/egress is S E V E R E L Y limited by the secondary brace interrupting the front of the door bars, but that also adds a tremendous amount of roll resistance to the windshield header coming down. Works better in a high roof like a BMW. Not so good in an already restricted 944. For a track day car? No way. For a race car? Great... if you can get out.
- DO NOT LIKE the FIA style belt bar in the rear X. Too long a belt paths to be nearly optimal. Add your own belt bar to suit and skip those.
- I'd like to see the mount plates be quite a bit larger in surface area, particularly the main hoop ones.
- I don't like the multiple tube nodes not being ON the plates (they are just above). If they were ON the plates, the lowest rear stay tube would be redundant.
- In fact, both the rear door bar braces are rather redundant, since the door Xs are flat. The top one would resist the main hoop pulling inward if the door bar was activated, but I think they add more weight for a very marginal increase in safety.
- The header tube could be a little farther forward under the top of the windshield, which allows some more very advantageous arch to be put in it.

I'll give the benefit of the doubt and say many of these points are concessions to making this a viable production kit. I would not do them myself. Nicely crafted and very nice welds. Your results may vary. Fair Dinkum, I'd say. You could do worse. FAR superior to any bolt in.

333pg333

PM sent John.

Lol, fair dinkum...

nosubt2

I too had the same head problem. I solved it by weldeing in a lower fixed seat mount. I made a steering wheel extension of 10 inches, welded extensions on the brake and clutch pedal, mounted a new type gas pedal and now sit much further back and down lower in the car. If interested I could take some pictures.

PPo

Gums,

I have to agree with John... header bar is in the wrong place. My 924S cage is not ideal, but the header bar is in an okay position in my car. Regardless, I plan on re-doing my cage for this reason, and a few other small reasons.

Ideally, next year I will call John and make the 6 hour tow to his place to get the cage done. I have 3-4 cage builders within a half hour drive, but having his years of experience with the 944 and cage design is invaluable in my opinion.

Having a cage, and seat designed around your own dimensions, makes a huge difference IMHO. Having that work done by somebody who has years of experience with the same chasis, and cares about his designs, is a large advantage as well.

Regards,
Patrick

PPo

Oh... and your new driving position looks much better and safer!! Great work for an afternoon!!

gums

Bear with me guys, I'm gonna dial this a bit more, as directed. At this point I just want to get through the rest of this season, then we'll cage properly for next year.

Post your pix, nosubt2, this is for all to see.

Fascinating and valuable assesments, John. A big help to all, I'm sure.

I'm off to the Yankee game, will hit the garage again after.....

nosubt2

here are some pictures of my solution to having your face on the roll cage.