Thunderhill T14 crash
04-30-2010, 09:43 AM
#46
Rennlist Member
Not at all. I just cant stand someone that insults someone without an clue of a fact and makes their opinion seem as fact. The biggest problem I have with your posts, is that you have to add an insult to the analysis as well. Project much? 
The turn 14 drver lost his brakes, did a great job of avoiding the car in front, and hitting the wall until the last possible point by a nice pitch turn around turn 14. a downshift would have been the only thing he could have done to save or dodge the damage.
He didnt run out of talent.
The turn 14 drver lost his brakes, did a great job of avoiding the car in front, and hitting the wall until the last possible point by a nice pitch turn around turn 14. a downshift would have been the only thing he could have done to save or dodge the damage.
He didnt run out of talent.
And then, like clockwork, you again pronounce what did & did not happen, even though you weren't in the car.
Larry is spot on. Just ask Dale Sr. what he thinks of Mark's "analysis". Oh wait....you can't.
Gary, well played with the "get behind the Greek thing".
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
04-30-2010, 09:55 AM
#47
Mr. Excitement
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Can't you both just step back and give it a rest. It is no big deal that you guys go back and forth over and over, after all its just the internets. In the long run you might find it does not reflect well on ether of you.
04-30-2010, 09:59 AM
#48
Rennlist Member
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
04-30-2010, 11:28 AM
#50
Rennlist Member
Ok, lets take this to High Plain Raceway!
Look, you see, thats the difference between you and me. I have a problem with folks guessing and insulting. You said, "
Looks like he ran out of talent first, then locked the brakes. Wow."
He didnt do both. and even if he did, why the insult? thats my only point with you . You have to toss in you arrogant dig, because........ it makes you feel more like an "instructor". 
I dont get it.
anyway, Im sure the truth will surface with pictures and maybe a commentary, but wait, the guy already walked us through what happened on the video.
So, your wrong, so why cant you just admit it??
Look, you see, thats the difference between you and me. I have a problem with folks guessing and insulting. You said, "
Looks like he ran out of talent first, then locked the brakes. Wow."
He didnt do both.
and even if he did, why the insult? thats my only point with you . You have to toss in you arrogant dig, because........ it makes you feel more like an "instructor". I dont get it.anyway, Im sure the truth will surface with pictures and maybe a commentary, but wait, the guy already walked us through what happened on the video.
So, your wrong, so why cant you just admit it??
Um...Mark? You are describing YOUR response perfectly. I posted no insults, just my opinion. YOU posted insults & the haughty view that your opinion--and yours alone--is fact. Project much, indeed.
And then, like clockwork, you again pronounce what did & did not happen, even though you weren't in the car.
Larry is spot on. Just ask Dale Sr. what he thinks of Mark's "analysis". Oh wait....you can't.
Gary, well played with the "get behind the Greek thing".
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
And then, like clockwork, you again pronounce what did & did not happen, even though you weren't in the car.
Larry is spot on. Just ask Dale Sr. what he thinks of Mark's "analysis". Oh wait....you can't.
Gary, well played with the "get behind the Greek thing".
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
04-30-2010, 11:33 AM
#51
Rennlist Member
Larry, Do you think dale would have rather hit the wall head on at 170mph? or have an impact of closer to 30-40mph at the angle he did? Oh, yeah, you are probably one of those follks that he actually hit and impacted the wall at 170mph, huh.
04-30-2010, 11:44 AM
#52
Rennlist Member
I think you are talking car orientation vs trajectory angle.
In the turn 14 video, the driver did the right thing. he was able to slow his impact speed by near 30% by taking a 45 degree angle hit. much different than a guy going 130mph and not being able to turn and only able to rotate the car, where I would agree with you. (i.e. the 130mph impact example described in this thread where the guy just blasted through some tires at 130mph head on and probably couldnt have turned and changed the impact angle)The idea is to slow the decel time,and use the most amount of "crumple zone" of the car. I thinks its dangerous to suggest racers to go "straight" in to obsticals if they have the ability to hit at an angle. (and again, not just car orientation)
In the turn 14 video, the driver did the right thing. he was able to slow his impact speed by near 30% by taking a 45 degree angle hit. much different than a guy going 130mph and not being able to turn and only able to rotate the car, where I would agree with you. (i.e. the 130mph impact example described in this thread where the guy just blasted through some tires at 130mph head on and probably couldnt have turned and changed the impact angle)The idea is to slow the decel time,and use the most amount of "crumple zone" of the car. I thinks its dangerous to suggest racers to go "straight" in to obsticals if they have the ability to hit at an angle. (and again, not just car orientation)
Can't see the vid at work. As to what angle is best for an impact. In an track built car I will take a clean straight in front or rear* impact over an off angle any day. Slight off angle looks like a real killer. There not enough to soak energy but enough to dirty up the G forces and reduce the value of the belting, seating and H&N systems used. Hands and feet off the controls just before impact is good form. Watch the F1 guys. They are trained to go fetal just prior to an impact.
*rear impact with a good seating system, not a 4 bolts only plastic seat.
*rear impact with a good seating system, not a 4 bolts only plastic seat.
04-30-2010, 12:07 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
..
04-30-2010, 12:27 PM
#54
Rennlist Member
I'll be at High Plains Raceway and will act as a moderator to smack both of you on the back of the head.
Why not just whip out your *****, measure and be done with it?
Why not just whip out your *****, measure and be done with it?
04-30-2010, 12:35 PM
#56
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Professional Racing and Driving Coach
04-30-2010, 01:52 PM
#58
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Thanks for the insult. That aside, a choice of 170 mph head on, or a glancing blow at 40 mph? Mark, really now, your premise is absurd. If I am going to hit the wall, I'd rather do it head on at 40 then at an angle at 40. That is a proper comparison. And for proof, that 40 mph "glancing" impact killed him.
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Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
04-30-2010, 02:05 PM
#60
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That makes more sense. For another data point, I know of someone else who hit the wall at an angle and died. Their estimated speed was about 60 mph. I'll stand by my feelings that crush zones and safety gear work better straight on than at an angle.