Aero Article Grassroots
03-26-2010, 04:44 PM
#1
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Aero Article Grassroots
For all the NASA racers this months Grass Roots has a interesting aero article.
03-26-2010, 06:37 PM
#3
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2 seconds a lap??? Maybe on a really fast track with long high speed sweepers like RA, Mosport or RAtlanta
I would bet that you only lose 1 second a lap if you now, pulled ALL of it off.
I rememmber a race with Kleinubing in WCT, where he backed into a wall, his crushed hatch with wing, was up, and his wing was flayling around and for some strange reason, he didnt lose a beat and was hanging with his gagle of cars, running near the exact same times. Generally, what I have found, is that aero (sans tracks like RA) generally, makes the car more controlable , especially at near the edge. There are a lot of guys that pick up 2 seconds a lap, but generally its due to their driving, not the changes to the car.
I would bet that you only lose 1 second a lap if you now, pulled ALL of it off.
I rememmber a race with Kleinubing in WCT, where he backed into a wall, his crushed hatch with wing, was up, and his wing was flayling around and for some strange reason, he didnt lose a beat and was hanging with his gagle of cars, running near the exact same times. Generally, what I have found, is that aero (sans tracks like RA) generally, makes the car more controlable , especially at near the edge. There are a lot of guys that pick up 2 seconds a lap, but generally its due to their driving, not the changes to the car.
03-26-2010, 06:38 PM
#4
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03-26-2010, 06:58 PM
#5
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Yeah, I'd be really shocked if you could truly gain 2 secs a lap. Gotta go with Kibort on this one. Consensus understanding is that aero is nothing more than a second-order effect for cars like ours.
Of course, that won't stop me from putting a humongous wing on our new race car.
Of course, that won't stop me from putting a humongous wing on our new race car.
03-26-2010, 09:14 PM
#6
Three Wheelin'
The fast guys in GTS 2 in the Great Lakes are running wings and are running some fast times (1:38 Mid O pro course). I don't know about 2 seconds a lap but I upgraded my "aero".
03-26-2010, 09:28 PM
#7
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You know not of what you speak. I was there pre-aero and talked with Bob yesterday about his data post aero. It's for real.
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Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
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03-26-2010, 10:00 PM
#11
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Let me throw out another possibility to your suggestion that any time gained is mostly from driving. It takes more skill to drive a car at the edge with downforce because the added grip is somewhat sensitive to the attitude of the car. Perhaps if you put on a really nice aero setup and don't gain significant time, you just aren't capable of pushing to the edge?
Similar example: There are plenty of folks who don't see a speed increase when switching from Toyos to Hoosiers simply because they aren't pushing the Toyos to the limit, so adding more grip isn't going to make them any faster. DE Joe Schmo may get slower on Hoosiers because they don't offer much feedback compared to Toyos while Randy Pobst would probably drop 2-3 seconds off his laptimes when making the switch.
03-29-2010, 09:28 AM
#14
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Those cars didn't have "aero"...those little wings were mostly for looks. Wouldn't be surprised if those little things netted slower lap times as a result of drag and didn't make up for it in increased grip. The teams seemed to run them in lowest drag possible mode, often angling them "up" with regards to the track surface in order to put them in line with the air flow off the rear hatch/window.
If it's only making the car more controllable/comfortable, your aero is acting more like a spoiler. If the rules allow you to do more, you should. A good wing and splitter should make real downforce, and thus, GRIP. GRIP = speed. 2 seconds doesn't sound all that unlikely for a really good wing that is positioned up in relatively clean airflow as Bob's seems to be.
Let me throw out another possibility to your suggestion that any time gained is mostly from driving. It takes more skill to drive a car at the edge with downforce because the added grip is somewhat sensitive to the attitude of the car. Perhaps if you put on a really nice aero setup and don't gain significant time, you just aren't capable of pushing to the edge?
Similar example: There are plenty of folks who don't see a speed increase when switching from Toyos to Hoosiers simply because they aren't pushing the Toyos to the limit, so adding more grip isn't going to make them any faster. DE Joe Schmo may get slower on Hoosiers because they don't offer much feedback compared to Toyos while Randy Pobst would probably drop 2-3 seconds off his laptimes when making the switch.
If it's only making the car more controllable/comfortable, your aero is acting more like a spoiler. If the rules allow you to do more, you should. A good wing and splitter should make real downforce, and thus, GRIP. GRIP = speed. 2 seconds doesn't sound all that unlikely for a really good wing that is positioned up in relatively clean airflow as Bob's seems to be.
Let me throw out another possibility to your suggestion that any time gained is mostly from driving. It takes more skill to drive a car at the edge with downforce because the added grip is somewhat sensitive to the attitude of the car. Perhaps if you put on a really nice aero setup and don't gain significant time, you just aren't capable of pushing to the edge?
Similar example: There are plenty of folks who don't see a speed increase when switching from Toyos to Hoosiers simply because they aren't pushing the Toyos to the limit, so adding more grip isn't going to make them any faster. DE Joe Schmo may get slower on Hoosiers because they don't offer much feedback compared to Toyos while Randy Pobst would probably drop 2-3 seconds off his laptimes when making the switch.
