Aero Article Grassroots
03-30-2010, 06:20 PM
#46
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03-30-2010, 10:51 PM
#48
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Those cars didn't have "aero"...those little wings were mostly for looks. Wouldn't be surprised if those little things netted slower lap times as a result of drag and didn't make up for it in increased grip. The teams seemed to run them in lowest drag possible mode, often angling them "up" with regards to the track surface in order to put them in line with the air flow off the rear hatch/window.
If it's only making the car more controllable/comfortable, your aero is acting more like a spoiler. If the rules allow you to do more, you should. A good wing and splitter should make real downforce, and thus, GRIP. GRIP = speed. 2 seconds doesn't sound all that unlikely for a really good wing that is positioned up in relatively clean airflow as Bob's seems to be.
Let me throw out another possibility to your suggestion that any time gained is mostly from driving. It takes more skill to drive a car at the edge with downforce because the added grip is somewhat sensitive to the attitude of the car. Perhaps if you put on a really nice aero setup and don't gain significant time, you just aren't capable of pushing to the edge?
Similar example: There are plenty of folks who don't see a speed increase when switching from Toyos to Hoosiers simply because they aren't pushing the Toyos to the limit, so adding more grip isn't going to make them any faster. DE Joe Schmo may get slower on Hoosiers because they don't offer much feedback compared to Toyos while Randy Pobst would probably drop 2-3 seconds off his laptimes when making the switch.
If it's only making the car more controllable/comfortable, your aero is acting more like a spoiler. If the rules allow you to do more, you should. A good wing and splitter should make real downforce, and thus, GRIP. GRIP = speed. 2 seconds doesn't sound all that unlikely for a really good wing that is positioned up in relatively clean airflow as Bob's seems to be.
Let me throw out another possibility to your suggestion that any time gained is mostly from driving. It takes more skill to drive a car at the edge with downforce because the added grip is somewhat sensitive to the attitude of the car. Perhaps if you put on a really nice aero setup and don't gain significant time, you just aren't capable of pushing to the edge?
Similar example: There are plenty of folks who don't see a speed increase when switching from Toyos to Hoosiers simply because they aren't pushing the Toyos to the limit, so adding more grip isn't going to make them any faster. DE Joe Schmo may get slower on Hoosiers because they don't offer much feedback compared to Toyos while Randy Pobst would probably drop 2-3 seconds off his laptimes when making the switch.
2 seconds easy on an E36 M3 using good splitter & high rise wing at TWS and MSR, and extrapolate to Mid O, Laguna, Infineon, Roebling, Autobahn, Hallett, Barber, and Daytona (where the wing hurts a bit on the banking, but really helps on the infield, especially n the kink). 3 seconds IMO at Road Atlanta and Road America.
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03-31-2010, 04:17 AM
#49
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Who said anything about 6 secs a lap? I was figuring a second per corner so on a 12 turn track that would add up to more like 12 seconds if my math is correct. ................ As far as race craft, I think a very wide wing say 10 feet may make it impossible for the car behind you to pass without contact, but if your 12 seconds a lap faster, it won't matter anyways...............................
lololol
03-31-2010, 09:57 AM
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Bob, cant wait to run up in some NE events. Prolly will do WG and NJMP in Oct. You should come down this way and test your aero at Summit Point in a few weeks 
Aero can also take out your competition. Detachable splitters do serious damage at 140MPH (punctured radiator, destroyed headlight, bumper, hood, fender and cracked windshield
) Lets also not forget the STi that just crashed at VIR when his rear wing failed :O :
Aero can also take out your competition. Detachable splitters do serious damage at 140MPH (punctured radiator, destroyed headlight, bumper, hood, fender and cracked windshield
) Lets also not forget the STi that just crashed at VIR when his rear wing failed :O :
03-31-2010, 10:53 AM
#52
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ERic!!!
Did that happen this weekend? I would guess Jeff pushed a button and dumped his wing on the front of the car to keep you behind him.
Looks like you guys had some close races at VIR. The car is a lot more stable, no more straight line speed, but much better in the corners. I am going to try and make SP where you will likely thrash me. Jeff wants revenge from last year. Car has new paint so I hope he does not NASCAR me. Maybe a little rain??
Did that happen this weekend? I would guess Jeff pushed a button and dumped his wing on the front of the car to keep you behind him.
Looks like you guys had some close races at VIR. The car is a lot more stable, no more straight line speed, but much better in the corners. I am going to try and make SP where you will likely thrash me. Jeff wants revenge from last year. Car has new paint so I hope he does not NASCAR me. Maybe a little rain??
03-31-2010, 11:27 AM
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ERic!!!
Did that happen this weekend? I would guess Jeff pushed a button and dumped his wing on the front of the car to keep you behind him.
Looks like you guys had some close races at VIR. The car is a lot more stable, no more straight line speed, but much better in the corners. I am going to try and make SP where you will likely thrash me. Jeff wants revenge from last year. Car has new paint so I hope he does not NASCAR me. Maybe a little rain??
Did that happen this weekend? I would guess Jeff pushed a button and dumped his wing on the front of the car to keep you behind him.
Looks like you guys had some close races at VIR. The car is a lot more stable, no more straight line speed, but much better in the corners. I am going to try and make SP where you will likely thrash me. Jeff wants revenge from last year. Car has new paint so I hope he does not NASCAR me. Maybe a little rain??
I was about to pack it in since my radiator is a custom job, but with the help of a few BMW guys we managed to rig in a stock radiator to work. A few zipties later and I was on grid JUST in time.
Would be sweet to see ya at SP. Supposed to be repaved by then also. However, the event does conflict w/ a NJMP race that NASA-NE is having that weekend at NJMP. I assume you'd wanna go kick some NE butt? or would you rather come to SP and run where the real competition is
:P
03-31-2010, 11:50 AM
#54
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03-31-2010, 11:53 AM
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03-31-2010, 12:21 PM
#56
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All I need is to learn to drove and cut the CoD a bit. The wing and splitter are just for looks, I hooks up the babes wit' em' and the wing makes a great bar for the paddock parties.
another intresting thread heading into head slap land.
03-31-2010, 01:03 PM
#57
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Haha! I would be happy to follow your tail to the finish with Jiffy Jeff behind me. That is assuming I even qualify well. 1:19? How about anything better than 22 when Eric is running 21's and 20's ( and has the track record 
).
Eric, don't you have Lexan? That close call would be my reason to get a 1/4 thick front shield.
BTW, I really want to make the event. I was lucky to even get a couple of races in last year. come on rain!!
). Eric, don't you have Lexan? That close call would be my reason to get a 1/4 thick front shield.
BTW, I really want to make the event. I was lucky to even get a couple of races in last year. come on rain!!
03-31-2010, 01:47 PM
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Sorry, I really wasn't trying to turn this into a bunch of BS. For the record, in fall of 2007 I ran a few 1:21:9s in my RSA with Chris Cervelli's butt in the passenger seat. Bob's 993 has about the same power as my RSA, same suspension, short gears, 400 lbs lighter (lighter car/no Chris) aero package and soon to be 265s & 315s. Seriously, don't you think that it should be able to break into the 19s?
03-31-2010, 02:28 PM
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Sorry, I really wasn't trying to turn this into a bunch of BS. For the record, in fall of 2007 I ran a few 1:21:9s in my RSA with Chris Cervelli's butt in the passenger seat. Bob's 993 has about the same power as my RSA, same suspension, short gears, 400 lbs lighter (lighter car/no Chris) aero package and soon to be 265s & 315s. Seriously, don't you think that it should be able to break into the 19s?
03-31-2010, 02:49 PM
#60
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Eric found a short-cut at Summit Main. He thinks no one is watching but he drives straight off in T5 and cuts out 6 and 7. I saw it on Youtube so it has to be true. BTW I am running 275's up front not 265's.
Bryan, have you found Summit to be better with more wing considering the layout? Or does the T9-T10 and front straight nullify that? If the track is repaved, it may make it a completely new warm up session Sat morning.
Bryan, have you found Summit to be better with more wing considering the layout? Or does the T9-T10 and front straight nullify that? If the track is repaved, it may make it a completely new warm up session Sat morning.