Earlierapex

The best shuffle steer technique is just to let go of the wheel. The natural castor angle of the front wheel will counter steer faster than fangio.

Now, whether you should teach that to a student?

Matt, I ended up getting a GT2. See you at VIR. When are you going next?

RJFabCab

1. Yoga
2. Some really, really........... really long arms.

WHB Porsche

trackjunky

Can someone please tell me why I watched this video, not once - but TWICE, to see if it had any relevance to the discussion?

(Of course, other than the obvious that I am a dumbass!)

mark kibort

I think to keep up with your rig, i would need to drop some weight! Is your car that runs between speed GT and touring times, on slicks or DOTs? when you are GTS4, are you closer to Touring times? Anyway I dont like the feel of the heavier car, so the restrictor way is probably the right solution for me to fit into GTS4, where the car is really set up to run properly.

I would love to get out and run with you and the GTS gang, but dont know if its in the cards this year. Finances have to improve or my wings are clipped this season. Miller? Im probably going to do a few NASA events and GTS this season, but we will have to see . a big trip like miller, probably isnt in the cards.

333pg333

Can someone explain what the alternative to shuffling is if your car has less lock than the corner you're trying to turn through? Based on the realisation that GoGo Gadget man arms are only a cartoon, I am left with having to move and re grip the wheel to increase the lock.

Other options will be gladly taken into consideration.

onefastviking

I'll find a transport to get your car there, It will be worth it just to meet you and see you run in GTS.

mark kibort

That is a very generous offer.

Thanks,

Mark

mark kibort

Basically, if you need more sterring input than you can give effectively enough without removing your hands from the 3-9 or there about, position, you need to "shuffle" your hands around . Very common and required for drifting, snow and ice driving, and correcting from a big tail slide. (unless you have one of those "bus-*****" located on the steering wheels. ) for normal, gripped track driving, your response time accuracy of quick steering movements can be improved or easier if your hands are fixed. you can see fromthe videos I just posted, that one slide down the carrocel at Sears last year was just enough to lift a hand out of the way, to correct the slide and be on my way. the other (2007 clip) was a full lock correction, which needed some hand over hand action to keep the car going forward and get back on line.

U4EEAH

That's why this much discussion about semantics is out of hand. I am sure we all reposition our hands in anticipation of certain corners and circumstances and always chose shuffle steering over hitting a tree. Very, very few drivers use it as their default technique, but all do when appropriate. Do you teach a student it is not the preferred default technique and break them of their street habits? Of course, but advanced drivers know what to do and when

Veloce Raptor

Agree. Also, IMO, if shuffling, it is best to keep at least 1 hand on the wheel at all times. The one exception, which is something only the best drivers can really get away with, is aggressively spinning the wheel in countersteer to catch large oversteer.







Professional Racing and Driving Coach

333pg333

In driving out of certain corners yes, I agree. I have used this method most of my driving life and it's by far the quickest to unwind. My sense of 'Shuffle' steering is at the beginning of a tight corner rather than exit. Well essentially you can't turn your wheel any further with the fixed position, so you have to re-grip to continue winding lock on. The various steering ratios that we're all used to in our own cars will basically pre determine whether this is necessary.

Chaos

"Kilborted" might be on to something here!

M758

Shuffle steer for novices is just not braking in a straight line for novices.

Any instructor will first teach braking in a straight line. It is safer and easier to control. Once the driver can brake in a straight line with proficienty they can progress to non-straight line braking(call it trail braking or what ever you want). Experrinced drivers and racers all know that to be fast you need to brake in corners but will that comes risk.

Shuffle steer is bad habit, but if you are expereinced enough you can learn when it makes the most sense to use and not let it cause problems for you. The original video that Mark posted showed excessive shuffle steer. Now the OTE was not caused by shuffle steer, but the technique did nothing to help the situation. The OTE was cause by a bad entry line. The inability to recover was probably cause by lack of driver skill. The shuffle steering make it harder to recover the car, but I have strong feeling even with no shuffle steer that driver would have gone off the same way. Now most us here probably could have corrected that going wide at track out even if we put 2 or 4 off. That however is experince of knowing you are going off and how much to correct it.

mark kibort

And this is kind of my point. However, I really due believe that the shuffle steering of the guy in the video I posted, could have contributed to the spin. Lets face it, those of us that do race drive around the track with all sorts of lines. Never has a line in or out of a turn caused a loss of car control. however, the point is, how do we correct a car that is starting to lose its way?
I contend that reaction time, with the speed and amount of correction is key.
This is helped by knowing where you are on the steering wheel. More experience drivers will have a better grasp of this due to their feel of the wheel and amounts of prior inputs, rather that just position.
So, you give me a guy that is randomly moving his hands to keep them at a comfortable position near his lap, and Ill put him in a slide, quickly and he will do what the video novice did, 9 times out of 10. put that same guy in the car, taping his hands to the wheel and that kind of slide, can be easily corrected. What I saw from the video, was that is corrective inputs to the steering wheel, lacked the proper movement both in distance, speed and timing, due to his hand positions. The puppet string analogy is all I can think of to explain what needs to be done in a small off. Most of us do this instinctively. the steering input has to match the the tail of the car's lateral change in speed all times. There is a recovery curve that a correction looks like. the steering inputs should follow this, otherwise, you get the tail slapping, or spinning result that this video shows, similar to a pilot induced occilation of a plane bouncing down the runway on landing due to a similar issue, possibly caused by incrorrect elevator trim. Just letting go of the wheel wont allow you to follow the control curve in most cases, althougth, in many cases its better or more accurate than INCORRECT steering input or timing.
Most top drivers keep their hands fixed for the most efficient applications of the micro corrections during a lap with their car on the edge of adheasion.
Again, all my opinion.