little confused shuffle
03-23-2010, 12:44 AM
#16
Owns the Streets
Needs Camber
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Needs Camber
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Is crossing hands bad because of the newer cars with airbags?
And how often does one need to add more steering once into a corner.
Understeer get worster?
Just curious.
And how often does one need to add more steering once into a corner.
Understeer get worster?
Just curious.
03-23-2010, 02:18 AM
#17
Instructor
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: California
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the older guys,Redman,Elford,etc, had to do it more with the older technology and production cars they raced and rally'd. Newer young guns grow up in Formula cars where there is no need for it.
Personally I would rather shuffle than cross up my hands or steer one handed.
Personally I would rather shuffle than cross up my hands or steer one handed.
In a modern formula cars you never see it, in rally cars it's pretty common
03-23-2010, 07:38 AM
#18
Rennlist Member
WoW! What a great clip. I've never seen that before. Thanks. 
As for shuffle steering, it totally depends on the car, the steering ratio, the track etc. I'm sure plenty of people would say you should never let go of the wheel while cornering either...
As for shuffle steering, it totally depends on the car, the steering ratio, the track etc. I'm sure plenty of people would say you should never let go of the wheel while cornering either...
03-23-2010, 07:39 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
03-23-2010, 09:55 AM
#21
Lifetime Rennlist Member
As far as shuffle steering, yes there are times you must do it. Beyond that, I tend to shuffle most of the time, and I have reasons that is makes sense, at least for me. I am nothing but an amateur, but I am an amateur with quite a few years and a great deal of experience in areas that most (on Rennlist) do not share. I have little interest in having my opinions attacked simply because they do not agree with the OP of that other thread, who cannot provide evidence for his points. If we want this thread to be about shuffle steering, I would be happy to provide my reasons for preferring shuffle steering, and I do not feel that everyone has to follow my opinion or be an idiot - both techniques work for different people.
03-23-2010, 09:57 AM
#22
Lifetime Rennlist Member
03-23-2010, 09:58 AM
#23
Lifetime Rennlist Member
That is one reason to avoid shuffle steering. But with understeer, you usually need to reduce steering input to get the front to bite.
03-23-2010, 01:03 PM
#24
Burning Brakes
This is Sunday, back when he had a funky Fu Manchu. It's as germain as the "Shuffle" thread OP's comments.
(btw Mark - your old car won the IMSA Lites race at Sebring last Friday. I guess it's not that "old". Damn...I should have bought it....)
03-23-2010, 02:44 PM
#26
Mr. Excitement
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Why is this so hard for some to grasp? "Depends" is a valid answer for things other than what underwear do I use on track.
03-23-2010, 02:53 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
I locked the thread as it turned out to be just a bash fest, not a discussion of why in this case, IMHO, the shuffle steering technique led to issues that I have seen with folks I have helped, MANY times before. Now, is there a place for shuffle steering? Yes, I have done it in extreme cases, for the reasons the opposing camps claim are valid reasons to do it.
There were misunderstanding of even the one comment refering to the 3 videos out there. The videos showing the pros, had little or nothing to do with the "issues" the newbee had with his steering techniques.
I think there is a little projection going on here. Of course, if it isnt VR or Bryans way, its to be bashed.
Bryan has the ***** to critizize my driving, and so does VR. Well, thats fine, thats why the challenge was held out there to race and settle it. Bryan seems to pedal his race car well, dispite his shuffle sterring! . If you are instructing someone on the track and allow this technique or adocate it, I feel you are not doing anyone any favors. Again, my opinion.
There were misunderstanding of even the one comment refering to the 3 videos out there. The videos showing the pros, had little or nothing to do with the "issues" the newbee had with his steering techniques.
I think there is a little projection going on here. Of course, if it isnt VR or Bryans way, its to be bashed.
Bryan has the ***** to critizize my driving, and so does VR. Well, thats fine, thats why the challenge was held out there to race and settle it.
Bryan seems to pedal his race car well, dispite his shuffle sterring! . If you are instructing someone on the track and allow this technique or adocate it, I feel you are not doing anyone any favors. Again, my opinion.
03-23-2010, 02:56 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
One of the most exciting rides of my life was with this hilarious British guy named Brian Redman, in a recently restored '73 RSR (a real one) at Moroso, helping the owner sort it out. Not only did I learn alot watching him left foot brake all over the place, but in one spot he did shuffle steer.
But then, what the heck would he know about driving? Surely our 928 friend knows better.
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
... you rode with Brian Redman??
OT: have you read this book... its flat out amazing.
03-23-2010, 03:03 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
Brother! 
I have driven with guys that do this and after fixing this "issue" their driving improved tremedously. guys with talent can probalby drive by feel. situations, like full lock recovery, require some hand over hand. Those of us with a lot of experince, know that eventually, you might get a big wiggle that might require the "shuffle". However, in my opinion, its a nasty habit that stems from general street driving and a lot of new trackies think they are being smooth by not moving their hand positions much, UNTIL the tail gets out of wack then its over correct, wash repeat, etc and into the tires. on the edge, good hand positions allows for just the right amount of input and correction. drifting, snow driving, big slides, steering ratios, all might on occasion require slightly different techiques.
I have driven with guys that do this and after fixing this "issue" their driving improved tremedously. guys with talent can probalby drive by feel. situations, like full lock recovery, require some hand over hand. Those of us with a lot of experince, know that eventually, you might get a big wiggle that might require the "shuffle". However, in my opinion, its a nasty habit that stems from general street driving and a lot of new trackies think they are being smooth by not moving their hand positions much, UNTIL the tail gets out of wack then its over correct, wash repeat, etc and into the tires. on the edge, good hand positions allows for just the right amount of input and correction. drifting, snow driving, big slides, steering ratios, all might on occasion require slightly different techiques.