rickmdz

Hello Rennlisters, yesterday I finally managed to take my C2S to the track. My prior experience was only 1 track day 2 years ago with a bimmer at thunderhill. So this was my second track day in may life, first time at LS and first time with the carrera.
Hooked on driving event, it was great, really well organized. My instructor, Jeff, was very nice and gave me very good input. Started in A (beginner) group and then bumped up to B group. The video is from last session of the day, driving solo. What I realized watching the video is the constant movement of the wheel in some corners, the car is stock with significant understeer so I think I was trying to get more grip, fighting understeer...
Appreciate your input, TIA!

mark kibort

looks like you are getting the hang of it.
If you watch the video, you can see most of your steering input is during the turn, rather than before the turn. what this means is that you are a little late on almost all of the turns. turn 9, for example, you want to set up high to the right and then slowly pinch down on the apex of 9, the apex, the steering wheel might even be straight, rather than at max input.
Key thing is to be comfortable, safe and not push too hard. after all, its your steet car and damage that can be caused by pushing too far at this stage in the game, could cause you to write off the car. From the looks of it, you seem to be in the safe and fun range. The limit of that car with street tires, might be in the 1:47s, so you are in the right practice range in the 1:52-3s.

rickmdz

Thank you Mark for your comments. I found turn 9 the most challenging of all, exactly what my instructor was telling me, to stay high and then dive into the apex... one of the things I'll have to work on.
I was slow, and probably late as a result, at turn in trying to be gentle so I would get less understeer... I don't know, maybe it didn't help with understeer and made me turn in late...
Also what about 'late apex' we newbies hear all the time? When I was driving slower, I was hitting the apex more consistently and of course understeer was less of a problem. Going a notch faster is where a found myself doing more with the steering wheel. That means moving to an earlier turn in and apex point?

I_am_imprezed

im amazed they let you fly solo on your 2 event Luckily you look safe out there but i cant imagine what they are thinking letting people with less than 2 days experience run solo..

rickmdz

Evidently the instructor saw the talent... j/k

I've been wanting to drive this track for a long time. Before coming to this event I had a mix of anxious and fearful feelings. I know this track can bite you if you make a mistake, so I felt I drove safe all the time. I watched lots of videos, 'practiced' the line on GTR2 (game/simulator) so all had to do is do it in real life, so easy... Not!

It maybe helped that I heel-toe pretty decently, I do it all the time while driving in the street, although it's different when driving at speed and breaking hard but it helps making the habit in the street. So probably the instructor thought I had more experience that what I really have.

WHB Porsche

Rick - I don't know much about LS, but in general you're doing fine for your amount of experience (I'm not much further along than you).

I drove solo my second day at a PCA event.

race911

My second day on track was an SCCA licensing school, so that doesn't have much of anything to do with anything. All looks fine at the pace you're going, and relative (in)experience. You've got a lot of car there that can make you feel more-than-human. That's where my issue with soloing new guys comes from. It's tough to learn just by feel, and progressively trying to haul *** at the edge, because there are HUGE consequences now at the speed even a below average car will exit the pavement.

ervtx

If you hit apexes consistently when going slower, but not when you picked up speed, that would simply be a sign of inconsistency at higher speeds. Don't try to fix it with earlier or later apexes, or with techniques to compensate for understeer. Instead, you should focus on being consistent on the line you have chosen - at any speed.

Don't confuse "late apex" with "late turn in". The apex is simply a point on the track. But the timing of your hands determines the path to get there! So you can initiate an earlier turn-in for a late apex, a later turn-in for an early apex, a earlier turn-in for an early apex, etc. I believe that Mark's comments were directed at your hands (late turn in), not your apex. His recommendation for the apex was not "where" it was, but rather, where you are in the rotation of the car at that point.

Mahler9th

Well...

I started track driving in 1987 and solo'd in my second event... not a big deal. I have been instructing for many, many years. This driver is well-ahead of 95% of others given the stated experience...

Here are some of my observations:

1. Be wary of getting feedback on the internet. I once got into a very brief "debate" with an instructor giving advice to a poster who said the way to go faster is to take later apexes. Be very careful.

2. Try to set up your camera (via position, wide angle lens, what have you) to see from a pillar to a pillar through the window. Rig up a small light (+12v incandescent red light from Radio Shack works fine) that can be placed in the camera FOV (dash?) when you drive and wired to come on with brake lights.

3. Deep understanding of the vocabulary and theory. Before I first turned a wheel in 1987 at Lime Rock Park (no karting or AX or anything else preceding), I watched Going Faster! 2-3 times. I have watched it 2-3 times each winter off-season since, and my best student ever watches it with me. I always recommend this video to my students. 100% of the time. I also recommend a book, Secrets of Solo Racing by Henry Watts. I consider these core resources. Study, read, watch, repeat, discuss.

4. If it is geographically feasible, make the PCA Golden Gate Region your home base for accumulating experience and knowledge. This group has the absolute highest percentage of participants focused on the craft-- driving faster. And they still have lots of fun. We can talk more about this if you want... I have experience with just about all other groups in this general area...

5. You have clear talent and interest. Be prepared to consider a multi-year plan for where this is going. Including consideration of safety modifications and equipment, and so on, that are paced with, or preferably ahead of your accumulation of skills and experience. Things like proper belts and seats and all that goes with... head and neck restraints, and so on...

6. Be wary of getting driving advice on the internet. There are reasons that some folks are instructors and some are not.

Just some thoughts...

I have many laps in at Laguna Seca, and lost a car there many moons ago. Your video looks very good.

I have been instructing for quite a while, and take it pretty seriously. My best student ever is the only woman to ever get top time of day at a PCA time trial event here locally, and she beat a car with over 2x more bhp (something like 600 - 700) driven by the region's chief driving instructor, who also authored a book that I recommend with great emphasis (see above). She worked hard to achieve this.

- Mike

Mahler9th

By the way, excellent quote. Lots of helpful analogies are out there.

- Mike
Porsche Racing Club #4
Quite proficient at pocket billiards

mooty

excellent suggestions.
i'll visit SP this weekend briefly. hope to see u up there.
u running?

fpb111

I'm surprised they let you run with anything suction cupped to the windshield. It’s going to hurt like the dickens when it breaks loose and smacks you between the eyes if you go off track backwards.

mark kibort

As was said, I wouldnt worry too much about "hitting apexes" right now. just drive the general line, and just work on car control. you will find each turn will have its own personality and will require different paths and control input. in other words, some turns like early apex, some late, and others right on the apex. Turn 6 for example, requires an early turn in, which then gives you a slight 4 wheel drift where the wheel is pointed straight at the apex, and you drive right out the exit. try a late apex there and you will probably go off track if you are driving at the limit. . It depends on the car, driver, set up, and track conditions. all that changes as you found, as you slow or speed up pace. In a race, you are off line more than on, sometimes and you need to know the fastest way around the track that way too. So, in the end, just grab as much seat time as possible, listen to the car, its telling you how far its being pushed, and then be safe and have fun.

Mahler9th

Sorry Mark, I have to disagree. You should learn to drive the correct line from the very beginning. And you should fully understand why it is the correct line. The fastest way through a turn is the widest arc by definition. The geometry of the turn defines the correct line-- basing everything on physics. We can and do deviate from the widest arc line for various reasons and under various circumstances. I am sure you know that Mark, but may not be articulating it clearly, at least to me. And I am sure you know all of the whys and all of the theory.

For Laguna, you can learn from the PCA Golden Gate Region's track guide.

In any case, hitting apexes is tantamount. A foot is not close enough. As an instructor, I want Angstroms. Consistently. This is a non-negotiable to learn things the right way. Do you think Johannes would ever tell anyone that hitting apexes is not important?

I love it when I race against people who don't think hitting apexes is important.

I also love it when I race against a guy that only took instruction in his first few events. Don't just get seat time, get instruction. And if you want to get good or great, bathe in the atmosphere of learning to do things the right way.

I strongly suggest re-reading my suggestions 1-6.

Here is another one:

7. Consider getting together with others interested in the craft at non-track events. Say a get-together where you watch the Skip Barber video and stop at times for some structured group discussion. Popcorn helps. Beer probably does not, beyond moderation. Do more of this than showing your friends your cool track video.

Be a student of the game.

race911

So how come you don't let her race?????? (Sorry, couldn't resist.............)