Sad news...Fatality at CMP PCA DE
03-08-2010, 12:26 PM
#31
Nordschleife Master
One final note.......
I have said what I felt was necessary to say. That can be read on page #1 (post #9)
At this point I feel it is appropriate for me to pull myself away from this thread, not respond to or comment to any post, and let the thread take whatever course the members here feel they need to take it.
Please just read my initial post and give yourself a short pause to read what you have typed before you hit submit.
Hug your family and tell them you love them. I can't imagine being without them or them being without me. Life is very precious and can be gone in an instant. Enjoy what time you have on this earth.
My best to everybody.
I have said what I felt was necessary to say. That can be read on page #1 (post #9)
At this point I feel it is appropriate for me to pull myself away from this thread, not respond to or comment to any post, and let the thread take whatever course the members here feel they need to take it.
Please just read my initial post and give yourself a short pause to read what you have typed before you hit submit.
Hug your family and tell them you love them. I can't imagine being without them or them being without me. Life is very precious and can be gone in an instant. Enjoy what time you have on this earth.
My best to everybody.
03-08-2010, 12:47 PM
#33
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Since it doesn't appear that anyone else has asked - how is the student? Is he OK?
Does anyone know how well he/she is holding up?
I would imagine that is a HUGE burden on your shoulders - even with there being no fault of his own, other than being at the wrong place at the track at the wrong time (when fluid is down).
Anyway, I hope the student is OK.
Does anyone know how well he/she is holding up?
I would imagine that is a HUGE burden on your shoulders - even with there being no fault of his own, other than being at the wrong place at the track at the wrong time (when fluid is down).
Anyway, I hope the student is OK.
03-08-2010, 01:13 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
Perhaps one takeaway from this sad, sad incident is this...not enough due diligence and attention is given to safety tech!!!
Prior to getting onto a hot track we all check tire pressures, lug nuts, brake pads, etc., etc, etc. But, IMO, less or little attention is paid to hoses, clamps and such!!!
I'm hoping that perhaps...just perhaps...that this would be a wake-up call for event organizers and participants alike that if the trackworthiness of your car is marginal at best then DON'T put it on the track!
Spilled fluids are track hazards of the worst kind.
Sincere condolences to the instructor's family. This incident makes me sad...and very mad too!
Prior to getting onto a hot track we all check tire pressures, lug nuts, brake pads, etc., etc, etc. But, IMO, less or little attention is paid to hoses, clamps and such!!!
I'm hoping that perhaps...just perhaps...that this would be a wake-up call for event organizers and participants alike that if the trackworthiness of your car is marginal at best then DON'T put it on the track!
Spilled fluids are track hazards of the worst kind.
Sincere condolences to the instructor's family. This incident makes me sad...and very mad too!
03-08-2010, 01:22 PM
#35
Perhaps one takeaway from this sad, sad incident is this...not enough due diligence and attention is given to safety tech!!!
Prior to getting onto a hot track we all check tire pressures, lug nuts, brake pads, etc., etc, etc. But, IMO, less or little attention is paid to hoses, clamps and such!!!
I'm hoping that perhaps...just perhaps...that this would be a wake-up call for event organizers and participants alike that if the trackworthiness of your car is marginal at best then DON'T put it on the track!
Spilled fluids are track hazards of the worst kind.
Sincere condolences to the instructor's family. This incident makes me sad...and very mad too!
Prior to getting onto a hot track we all check tire pressures, lug nuts, brake pads, etc., etc, etc. But, IMO, less or little attention is paid to hoses, clamps and such!!!
I'm hoping that perhaps...just perhaps...that this would be a wake-up call for event organizers and participants alike that if the trackworthiness of your car is marginal at best then DON'T put it on the track!
Spilled fluids are track hazards of the worst kind.
Sincere condolences to the instructor's family. This incident makes me sad...and very mad too!
Originally Posted by Other forum
I was there at CMP when this crash occurred, my girlfriend was two cars behind the incident when it happened. The car's power/driver skill/safety equipment/corner workers/safety inspections WERE NOT A FACTOR. I'll be honest, I'm a little angry to come back from the track and find this nonsense speculation on how the incident occurred.
A 911 996 had an upper radiator close clamp failure, it was a street car with the stock style spring clamps, and one partially slipped. The driver dumped coolant somewhere around Turn 8, realized he was losing fluids, and immediately drove off line, just like he was supposed to. Unfortunately, there were was a 930 following pretty close behind in the group, it was very cold that morning, and what happened was just unavoidable. Matter of fact, I've driven with the 930 driver before, he's a talented driver, and on this outing he was on his final check ride to move up to the next group. The corner workers did their jobs, the EMTs did their jobs, the 930 was a race prepped car with every piece of safety gear you can imagine. The driver in fact was completely uninjured. As near as we can assume, a tree branch must've penetrated the cockpit.
You need to keep in mind the previous day THERE WAS NOT A SINGLE INCIDENT. Not a single incident report, no car damage, just some mech failures. And that is with high horsepower cars, R comps, all different skills groups, and 28 degree temps in the morning. PCA puts on VERY SAFE events, what happened Sunday was a true freak accident.
I mean honestly, when we started running this weekend, track temps started in the upper 20s. If a fluid hits the track, and you run across that at speed, what are you supposed to do? Let's say Vince hadn't been next line, if my girlfriend had been two cars ahead, she would've hit it instead of him, and gone right off the track too. If Bob's little 914 wasn't so cold natured, he would've been the one in the trees. This is not the first time I've seen a car hit coolant before, when it happens, there just isn't a damn thing you can do, no matter how skilled you are or what car it is. Physics can be cruel.
A 911 996 had an upper radiator close clamp failure, it was a street car with the stock style spring clamps, and one partially slipped. The driver dumped coolant somewhere around Turn 8, realized he was losing fluids, and immediately drove off line, just like he was supposed to. Unfortunately, there were was a 930 following pretty close behind in the group, it was very cold that morning, and what happened was just unavoidable. Matter of fact, I've driven with the 930 driver before, he's a talented driver, and on this outing he was on his final check ride to move up to the next group. The corner workers did their jobs, the EMTs did their jobs, the 930 was a race prepped car with every piece of safety gear you can imagine. The driver in fact was completely uninjured. As near as we can assume, a tree branch must've penetrated the cockpit.
You need to keep in mind the previous day THERE WAS NOT A SINGLE INCIDENT. Not a single incident report, no car damage, just some mech failures. And that is with high horsepower cars, R comps, all different skills groups, and 28 degree temps in the morning. PCA puts on VERY SAFE events, what happened Sunday was a true freak accident.
I mean honestly, when we started running this weekend, track temps started in the upper 20s. If a fluid hits the track, and you run across that at speed, what are you supposed to do? Let's say Vince hadn't been next line, if my girlfriend had been two cars ahead, she would've hit it instead of him, and gone right off the track too. If Bob's little 914 wasn't so cold natured, he would've been the one in the trees. This is not the first time I've seen a car hit coolant before, when it happens, there just isn't a damn thing you can do, no matter how skilled you are or what car it is. Physics can be cruel.
03-08-2010, 01:39 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
This news literally puts a lump in my throat. Any news like this is tragic, but when you know the person it makes it that much harder. I think we all know the risk of this sport whenever we go out on track, whether in the right or left seat, but this news really puts it in perspective. RIP. My prayers will go out to him and his family.
03-08-2010, 01:49 PM
#37
This is a tragedy, and everyone from the family to the driver to the event organizers must be mourning.
FWIW, it makes no sense to me that clubs do not apply a 'no coolant' rule for racing and DE.
Far as I know, NASA is the only race sanctioning body that prohibits coolant as part of their tech rules. Cars run with water and water wetter.
It seems that this fairly simple change could make track event a lot safer for all participants. Cooling circuits WILL fail, and having them dump water rather than massively slippery coolant is obviously safer. Sure, oil leaks will happen too. Its just that the water vs coolant is a simple change that is not a burden to drivers, and removes one major cause of some serious track incidents.
FWIW, it makes no sense to me that clubs do not apply a 'no coolant' rule for racing and DE.
Far as I know, NASA is the only race sanctioning body that prohibits coolant as part of their tech rules. Cars run with water and water wetter.
It seems that this fairly simple change could make track event a lot safer for all participants. Cooling circuits WILL fail, and having them dump water rather than massively slippery coolant is obviously safer. Sure, oil leaks will happen too. Its just that the water vs coolant is a simple change that is not a burden to drivers, and removes one major cause of some serious track incidents.
03-08-2010, 02:18 PM
#40
Race Director
FWIW, it makes no sense to me that clubs do not apply a 'no coolant' rule for racing and DE.
Far as I know, NASA is the only race sanctioning body that prohibits coolant as part of their tech rules. Cars run with water and water wetter.
It seems that this fairly simple change could make track event a lot safer for all participants. Cooling circuits WILL fail, and having them dump water rather than massively slippery coolant is obviously safer.
Far as I know, NASA is the only race sanctioning body that prohibits coolant as part of their tech rules. Cars run with water and water wetter.
It seems that this fairly simple change could make track event a lot safer for all participants. Cooling circuits WILL fail, and having them dump water rather than massively slippery coolant is obviously safer.
Antifreeze is harder clean-up than just water which drys fast add needs no clean up.
Sadly there is always a danger of fluids being on track. The simple fact is you can'tt prevent 100% every mechanical issue you could or might have. Plenty of pro teams with all the money and skill for car prep still have failures.
03-08-2010, 02:24 PM
#43
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LVD, Please extend my condolences to the family. They are in my prayers as is the driver who will carry this sad burden the rest of his days.
We love our sport but we are reminded by such a tragic event that it is not without considerable risk. Hug your families and tell them you love them every day.
We love our sport but we are reminded by such a tragic event that it is not without considerable risk. Hug your families and tell them you love them every day.
03-08-2010, 02:26 PM
#44
Burning Brakes
My heart is very heavy. I drove with the instructor at several First Settlers Region and Zone 2 events at VIR, and a couple of DarkSide events at Roebling Road. Last time I saw him, we were eating barbeque and drinking beer at Roebling. True gentelman. I am praying for him and his family.
