multi21

I can't believe this thread still has legs. Where do I file a formal complaint against the self proclaimed "Super Moderator"?

Lewis, you know that you've met people in the karting circles with worse attitudes than Danica. You see it at every race. Doug Fleming has told me stories about her and Colin when he used to beat up on her on teh track. The difference is Colin went to Europe to try his hand at F1 and she stayed in the US. I think Danica gets more attention here than she would in Europe where it is more cut throat in the racing community. I do agree it's about attracting the most money that gets the ride today from the lowest to the highest forms of racing.

And LandJet, if we're going to name a few who have worse attitudes than Danica, let's start off with the Busch brothers and Tony Stewart. When they throw fits, they're called, "Bad Boys", when Danica does it, it's call being a Bitch. Yes I realize Tony has won 2 and Kurt 1 (Cup titles), but does the amount of titles entitle you to be a dick? You said you measure everyone against your hero Michael Schumacher. I don't think he comes off as a dick in interviews on or off the track.

ltc

Easy. Send a PM to the Rennlist Administrator, Bob Rouleau.
He sits me down, we have a "chat", I get a new prescription, and I try it again.
Happens all the time

Yes, you're right.
However, the problem I have with Danica is the double standard that she perpetuates.
"I just want to be another racer, but I'll pose in a bikini"

If she is a racer, then let her ability (or lack thereof) speak for itself.

She is a the racing equivalent of the circus freak, a female racer with marginal talent (as measured against all the other 'available' drivers). She has been 'exploited' by the IRL (for marketing $$ and TV viewers) the same was as NA$CAR is doing it now. I'll skip the whole IRL power steering discussion for another time.
(interesting that her current NA$CAR owner, Dale Jr, is in a similar boat. More name recognition and marketability (due to birthright) than talent and ability to perform consistently.)

They are trying to make her into something that she clearly is not.
Yes, she can race at the front of a field, the question is what is the field composed of?
Analogy: a one eyed man is a leader in the valley of the blind

Male, Female, makes no difference once the helmet is on. It is better that way.
And yes, she is a much better racer than me, which says little to nothing.

Land Jet

Me thinks thou dost protest too much. The double standard exists and you didn't like being called on it. If a guy would say he was only joking and didn't mean it, I doubt he would get much sympathy.

If you guys want to attack me for pointing this hypocrisy out, you have at it. I have seen it and will not just brush it off. That's why these PC double standards continue, because most people won't stand up to them. She's the one that made the crude remark, not me. Women always say they want equality, but in many cases it's a smoke screen for "I want control", whether it's the debate, the situation, or the workplace.

Brian P

She is not perpetuating a double standard. It is the readers/viewers of the magazine shoots that are perpetuating the double standard.

For instance, I'd gladly pose in a bikini if somebody will pay for my next few seasons of racing. I suspect that many other racers would do the same. The problem is that nobody wants to see that.

Like it or not, she is very effective at promoting her sponsor and getting air coverage. The fact that other racers do not know how to market themselves is not her fault.

So, now it doesn't even matter that she's at the front of the field?

Geez, I'd hate to see the reaction if one of us got to race in one of these series and we were at the front of the field.

911vet

Landjet: you need to fix your post. You inserted your own comments in my "quote" making it appear I said something I did not.

wanna911

It would be a big freaking deal because I don't know many of us who have grown up being trained to be a pro driver. Take an amateur throw him in a pro series and if they run at the front it's a legitimate big deal.

The illogical concepts that people come up with are quite staggering.

Pete, people that win usually get away with more attitude than those that don't. You dare compare Danica to Tony Stewart? Who has an IRL championship several Nascar titles and nearly 40 wins????

I don't even like Tony Stewart for the reasons you mentioned, but you can't justify that comparison.

911vet

There is some value in even mediocre women racing. It breaks down obstacles for others to excel later. An aspiring racer won't have to be the first, she can just be another driver.

It wasn't long ago women were not permitted to set foot in the paddock/garage at Indy. When they filmed Paul Newman's movie, they had to fake the scene where a woman is there. They wouldn't even allow the actress to stand on the asphalt. They said women were bad luck. Maybe so. Someday a bad-luck lady might just wupp up on the competition.

Land Jet

Fixed, my mistake.

Land Jet

Again for the fifth time, my opinion is that Danika is an also ran, not a champion, and she is over hyped because of her gender, not her accomplishments. If racing has come down to who can get the most sponsor money and not who can win championships, I guess it won't be worth watching before too long.

I saw Michael Schumacher pull some cheap stunts during his day, but he is still king of the hill by a long shot as far as actually winning. Danika won one race because the competition ran out of gas. Doesn't hold water for me.

911vet

I guess it doesn't matter whether you're a winner or loser. Heck, I'm not even a real racer. I just do DE. But my temper has been nearly equal to Tony's or Danica's more than once!

Fortunately, I have a lifetime of martial arts training and self-discipline enough to stop myself from hunting down the other DE driver whom I want to beat with my helmet Instead I give really evil looks through my visor and fantacize I live in a world where a turbo C4 is not able to accelerate away on a straight from a Miata that just destroyed them in the curves.

There's this one C4S Turbo driver I may challenge to a kickboxing match

Maybe I need to give Danica, Tony, and the others a little more respect. I expect them to be competitive on the track but then I want them to be in complete control of their emotions in the paddock. The adrenal gland hormone does play havoc with the cerebral cortex.

Brian P

Wow. So, I'm just stunned that we are talking about someone who has won an IRL race and taken 3rd in the Indy 500 and calling that person an also-ran.

I guess Dan Marino, Barry Sanders, John Stockton, Karl Malone, Ernie Banks, Carl Yastrzemski, and Ted Williams are also in the also-ran category.

FredC

+1 Brian. I quit trying to make the point a while back. Misogyny is just like racism... See you at the track!!!

ltc

No, it's the fact that most (male) drivers aren't posing in Playgirl, et. al. for the sake of sponsorship (or marketing).
IF Danica truly has championship caliber talent (pick a series, any series), then by now it should have been evident, correct? Take away the Motegi win and exactly how does her c.v. compare to other drivers?
Again, she is a product of the culture, not a championship driver.

What field?

As was stated by another member, she is a trained and paid professional racer. It is expected. It is not expected that an amateur can compete at the same level.

In summary, when she truly distinguishes herself as a championship racer (and she hasn't exactly had poor equipment), call me...but something tells me my phone won't be ringing anytime soon.

FredC

God darn... i am dragging myself into this....

What field? Serious question? Really?

She ain't a champion but can hang out with the crowd in IRL. That's the plain truth. It's a fact.

ltc

I was referring to her current ARCA/NA$CAR Nationwide (Busch) series endeavours.

It's a matter of perspective and honest evaluation.
I know parents who routinely say their kid is a consistent top 5 driver...in a field of 6-8 karts. True statement, but put the same kid in a different field and it's a different story.
Hell, I've seen kids win races and put out press releases in a 3 kart grid.

She is an average to slightly above average driver IMHO. Nothing more and certainly nothing close to the hype and expectation that is generated on a regular basis (re: see Earnhardt Jr.).
She can't blame equipment nor teams throughout her career, so if she was even close to the hype, she should have won more races by now. (and we'll leave out good finishes that can be argued were influenced by pit strategy and/or fuel mileage).

I would much rather see far less PR and promotion and more results.