sparks259

nnjr= 1/2 price for instr. one or two students
nasa/pda= free

DarkSideDE

I knew this topic was feeling familiar. To the original OP - please check this out:
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...ay-for-de.html

JR944

Unfortunately, I'm dealing with a board that looks at is as a loss of income from the instructors who DO pay full boat AND instruct. As an example, that's pretty close to actual.... We had about 20 instructors at the last event who paid the full $250 entry fee. If I get an additional 10 by cutting the fee in half, the board sees that as a $1,250 COST.

What I have to convince them of is that having quality instruction available is what will KEEP our participants coming. Also, I had conversations with at least 3 instructors last week who felt that having 2 students plus running their own car was just too much. The region used to split the day into 6 run groups which only allowed 3 runs per day. I've made the change to 4 groups (and will keep it there unless we go over 120 drivers on our 2.55 mile track) which allows 4 runs per day but less down time for instructors who have 2 students.

JR944

Yes, I saw that. It asked if instructors should pay. I posted a new thread because I'd like to go to the board and say that I haven't identified even one PCA region that charges full price to instructors and expects them to instruct for most of the weekend.

Matt Romanowski

NCR lets instructors go free. If all goes well and there are enough instructors, 1 student. Rarely 2. Metro NY is a discounted fee. CVR is a discounted fee.

I would not instruct if I had to pay full price and have 2 students.

Mikelly

Trackdayz.com also doesn't charge their instructors. Instructors do take two students.

I think that some clubs don't understand the whole "customer" and "volunteer" thing. HPDE is something that lives and dies with both. If a club doesn't show some serious appreciation for those who pitch in and help, the program dies.

Some deal with HPDE programs as customer service oriented. Some don't...

Mike

Tom W

GGR charges the full price but instructors get a $75 discount toward the 'worker fee' (everyone either works or pays a worker fee). I know there was talk about additional discounts this year if attendance was high enough, but I haven't instructed this year.

How do you handle it if you have students that need an instructor but don't have enough instructors?

JR944

Hey Matt! Say hello to Judy H. if you see her please! I was hoping to see her at Parade this summer.

Tom W, Your program sounds a bit like what we used to do. Everyone was SUPPOSED to work, either corners or as an instructor. Valid argument, I think. The concept of a worker fee is interesting too giving folks the option to work OR pay.

I don't know what the layout is of your tracks, but ours requires that we deliver all workers to the corners then pick them up at the end of their turn. At the one event we did this at the new track, it took 35+ minutes for each switch effectively costing us over 30% of the available track time. The decision to hire workers was a good one and has been well received.

At the last event, we had 24 brand new drivers in the "beginner" group and 24 available instructors. Any more and we'd have to turn folks away.

My board meeting was rescheduled. Still have a little more time to make more arguments. I'm pushing for a 1/2 price for instructor fee as a trial at our one remaining DE this year.

Thanks for the thoughts!
Joe

Phokaioglaukos

One of the guys in our club asks if there is any tax consequence to instructor discounts. Could it be that the amount of discount is income to the instructors? Could a sponsor be required to send a 1099 or some such to the instructors getting discounts?

Just wondering if anyone who might know can say.

Martin S.

would comp their instructors for their events, back in the day.

Bill N

Wow, that would be messy for those of us coming from Canada...one thing they grill us about coming into the US is whether we will be earning any money. It has occurred to me that an instructor discount might be considered earnings, but I have quickly shelved the thought.

Mark in Baltimore

I tried having two students last year when my tow vehicle was being repaired,meaning I couldn't transport my car. Being nauseous for all three days was not my idea of fun, although it felt good to help the region. (Yes, I know I could have used Scopolamine, but I wasn't keen on having a new drug in my body.) Having two students and paying full price is pretty rough.

smlporsche

I'm a little late for the OP's meeting but I'll chime in anyway...

I think the trend on the east coast is going from discounted rates to free or almost free for instructors.

You mentioned that you only had 24 instructors and that was your total run group in green. I would suggest that your rate structure is the reason. Most groups around here only give one student per instructor and I'd be hesitant to take on another full time student although I have done it on several occassions.

In the 2 non PCA clubs I instruct with the instructors are both free and they usually provide lunch !


If I may let me provide a pricing structure that may work for you:

Blue and Green students (instructed) pay "X"
White (solo) students pay "3/4 X"
Instructors pay "1/4 X"

Determine your X rate to be your break even point and the rest will be profit.

Will your instructed students end up paying more? Yes, as they are getting more as well..

DarkSideDE

I'm not a lawyer, I'm not an accountant - but I have had businesses that have had to deal with both.

If they organization displays two separate prices:
Participants/Students: $xxx.
Instructors: $yy.

Then there is no income - no breaks. That is the price of an instructor coming to the event.

If you run into trouble - I have a JD/CPA in New York you could talk to...

DarkSideDE

Okay, I don't want to come off like a little know-it-all - but this is not the first time I've seen this kind of a breakdown - and truly, as an organizer I must put in my 2 cents.

When I helped run DEs for local regions - one of them wanted to do this. It can be a nightmare. You get the wise guys who think - "I don't need no stinkin' instructor" just to save what - 25 bucks? Or you get the person in an intermediate group, not famiiar with the new car - new track, whatever -- and now in want of an instructor. Do you charge them at the track for this?

It truly hurts placing people where they belong. Especially when you have one that is just there for a check ride - to be solo. What if he/she doesn't check out? CHARGE... what if they do -- CHARGE because an instructor was there in the car?

And don't say folks don't want to save a few bucks - they sure do. I had one guy sign in as a member of PCA that lived a stone's throw from my house. I contacted him to find out why he was not in our region. Turned out to save the 25 bucks (members were 25 bucks cheaper in those days) he "borrowed" his friend's membership number from a few states away.... I don't think we've ever checked to see if someone was a member or not of PCA - but it shows you the lengths that folks can/will do to pay less. And honestly, can you blame them?

My two cents. Thank you.