Corvette ZR1 GT2 on the cover of Autoweek
08-06-2009, 02:15 AM
#46
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Unrestricted, we have seen the RSRs from a few years ago, run 440rwhp on the dyno. I have to imagine that over the last 5 years, that the RSRs are making what the older cars were making, even restricted. lap times at laguna have gone from 1:26 down to 1:22, much of which would be HP related I would imagine.
The torque, as we have discussed, ONLY would broaden the HP curve of the vet, which is what the close ratio RSR gear box does for the higher reving, peakier hp engines. remember, it has to do with how much power you put down at any given speed.
So, i guess (and this is a guess) if the restricted RSR is lowered to 410rwhp, at 2700lbs, the 2900lb vet will have to be around 440rwhp just to have the same acceleration. (520flywheel hp) 200lbs will give the a little bit of an edge with braking and cornering, unless the wider tires and down force package is better with the vet.
Bryan is right, much of the published HP ratings are just marketing. they are well off reality.
The torque, as we have discussed, ONLY would broaden the HP curve of the vet, which is what the close ratio RSR gear box does for the higher reving, peakier hp engines. remember, it has to do with how much power you put down at any given speed.
So, i guess (and this is a guess) if the restricted RSR is lowered to 410rwhp, at 2700lbs, the 2900lb vet will have to be around 440rwhp just to have the same acceleration. (520flywheel hp) 200lbs will give the a little bit of an edge with braking and cornering, unless the wider tires and down force package is better with the vet.
Bryan is right, much of the published HP ratings are just marketing. they are well off reality.
Oh, my comment was not about hp being wheel or crank, it was simply to prove that a car with 460 or whatever hp and 2700 lbs could be competitive in the class. Whatever the numbers are, they are obviously the same (crank or wheel) across the class. The Corvette's will certainly have the umph to get the job done.
FWIW I believe it's whp too, because messing with crank numbers is a huge waist of time. Power to the pavement is all that should matter IMO. Then we'd have to know what correction factor FIA uses for each vehicle, and it seems tech is complicated enough without all that.
08-06-2009, 09:38 AM
#47
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Last edited by Veloce Raptor; 08-06-2009 at 10:45 AM.
08-06-2009, 10:24 AM
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http://www.corvetteracing.com/
I think your assumption that the only differences between the cars is a tire change and a header is severely flawed. I'm really not sure if you appreciate or understand the level of development that goes on in an ALMS GT car. So many unseen, but very important, differences make up a high level GT car.
08-06-2009, 10:48 AM
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08-06-2009, 03:59 PM
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The car that he had at Laguna the first year Rolex GS came to Laguna, he told me those two numbers as we were talking about the ptg plennum air box that he had to remove due to the rule changes, but still was able to muster up 314 at the rear wheels. If he was lying or mistaken, what were the numbers?
I also saw the dyno run from the other more stock S54 that sofronas had on a e46 that ran with me in WCGT. All it had was a cam and ecu work. also, in the 315rwhp range.
If you are going to correct me, correct me. Stop the BS.
I also saw the dyno run from the other more stock S54 that sofronas had on a e46 that ran with me in WCGT. All it had was a cam and ecu work. also, in the 315rwhp range.
If you are going to correct me, correct me. Stop the BS.
08-06-2009, 04:06 PM
#56
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Sorry, 2745lbs, I was mistaken.
If you think Sofro was holding back, (big stretch there,) thats fine, but if so, i guess I didnt go so bad against Pobst then did I in the Sofro/Muson GS racer did I? ( I was 3000lbs and 310rwhp at the time). Oh yeah, Im slow and the 928 is garbage in handling as you say
as far as your last comment goes, I do have a very good appreciation of the GT2 alms cars, but the viper was put in the race as a kind of last minute entry a couple of years ago. I have no idea what they went through to make it into the GT2 class. at 8.3 liters, Its hard to imagine them getting much concessions, with all that "torque" and all!
If you think Sofro was holding back, (big stretch there,
) thats fine, but if so, i guess I didnt go so bad against Pobst then did I in the Sofro/Muson GS racer did I? ( I was 3000lbs and 310rwhp at the time). Oh yeah, Im slow and the 928 is garbage in handling as you say as far as your last comment goes, I do have a very good appreciation of the GT2 alms cars, but the viper was put in the race as a kind of last minute entry a couple of years ago. I have no idea what they went through to make it into the GT2 class. at 8.3 liters, Its hard to imagine them getting much concessions, with all that "torque" and all!
Who said anything about the Vette running at 2900 pounds? Their press release in the Autoweek article and their webpage mentions a weight of 2745:
http://www.corvetteracing.com/
My tuner actually knows what he's doing? Sofro was holding back and/or lying about his numbers? I know for a fact that Koni S54's make more power than that, plus they are running a BMW Motorsport cam IIRC.
I think your assumption that the only differences between the cars is a tire change and a header is severely flawed. I'm really not sure if you appreciate or understand the level of development that goes on in an ALMS GT car. So many unseen, but very important, differences make up a high level GT car.
http://www.corvetteracing.com/
My tuner actually knows what he's doing? Sofro was holding back and/or lying about his numbers? I know for a fact that Koni S54's make more power than that, plus they are running a BMW Motorsport cam IIRC.
I think your assumption that the only differences between the cars is a tire change and a header is severely flawed. I'm really not sure if you appreciate or understand the level of development that goes on in an ALMS GT car. So many unseen, but very important, differences make up a high level GT car.
08-06-2009, 04:13 PM
#57
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The car that he had at Laguna the first year Rolex GS came to Laguna, he told me those two numbers as we were talking about the ptg plennum air box that he had to remove due to the rule changes, but still was able to muster up 314 at the rear wheels. If he was lying or mistaken, what were the numbers?
I also saw the dyno run from the other more stock S54 that sofronas had on a e46 that ran with me in WCGT. All it had was a cam and ecu work. also, in the 315rwhp range.
If you are going to correct me, correct me. Stop the BS.
I also saw the dyno run from the other more stock S54 that sofronas had on a e46 that ran with me in WCGT. All it had was a cam and ecu work. also, in the 315rwhp range.
If you are going to correct me, correct me. Stop the BS.
I am not sure what year that was, or whether that was the same car he shared with Munson at Anchor. If not, those numbers may well be accurate. If it is, those numbers are incorrect. Sorry, it would be inappropriate for me to post the proprietary dyno numbers for one of my team's cars. You should know this.
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08-06-2009, 04:18 PM
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If you think Sofro was holding back, (big stretch there, ) thats fine, but if so, i guess I didnt go so bad against Pobst then did I in the Sofro/Muson GS racer did I? ( I was 3000lbs and 310rwhp at the time). Oh yeah, Im slow and the 928 is garbage in handling as you say
) thats fine, but if so, i guess I didnt go so bad against Pobst then did I in the Sofro/Muson GS racer did I? ( I was 3000lbs and 310rwhp at the time). Oh yeah, Im slow and the 928 is garbage in handling as you say I have no idea what they were running when the car showed up at an SCCA race. For all I know they were on old **** tires and the car was running like crap. For all I know, they were sand bagging so that they didn't give anything away during their "testing". I also have no idea why you are running so little power in your car when you say it's easy to make 600 hp from a 928 over in the Corvette thread.
Ultimately, I think you spend way too much time thinking about what Jim John said their car was making on the dyno and comparing it to what Ben John was running at Laguna in Tim John's car against Kim John's car that everyone in the paddock has heard from Billy John Jimmy Johnson is making 750 hp on the dyno in order to come up with a justification for feeling good about your own laptimes. You take bench racing to an extreme that most only dream about. I've never heard someone throw out so many numbers about cars that they don't personally own or drive in my life.
08-06-2009, 04:24 PM
#59
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Yes, it is still a miracle to me that some team isn't paying you $100K a year to drive for them. You're easily better than Pobst. Your video and these bench racing specs prove it.
I have no idea what they were running when the car showed up at an SCCA race. For all I know they were on old **** tires and the car was running like crap. For all I know, they were sand bagging so that they didn't give anything away during their "testing". I also have no idea why you are running so little power in your car when you say it's easy to make 600 hp from a 928 over in the Corvette thread.
Ultimately, I think you spend way too much time thinking about what Jim John said their car was making on the dyno and comparing it to what Ben John was running at Laguna in Tim John's car against Kim John's car that everyone in the paddock has heard from Billy John Jimmy Johnson is making 750 hp on the dyno in order to come up with a justification for feeling good about your own laptimes. You take bench racing to an extreme that most only dream about. I've never heard someone throw out so many numbers about cars that they don't personally own or drive in my life.
I have no idea what they were running when the car showed up at an SCCA race. For all I know they were on old **** tires and the car was running like crap. For all I know, they were sand bagging so that they didn't give anything away during their "testing". I also have no idea why you are running so little power in your car when you say it's easy to make 600 hp from a 928 over in the Corvette thread.
Ultimately, I think you spend way too much time thinking about what Jim John said their car was making on the dyno and comparing it to what Ben John was running at Laguna in Tim John's car against Kim John's car that everyone in the paddock has heard from Billy John Jimmy Johnson is making 750 hp on the dyno in order to come up with a justification for feeling good about your own laptimes. You take bench racing to an extreme that most only dream about. I've never heard someone throw out so many numbers about cars that they don't personally own or drive in my life.
/THREAD
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08-06-2009, 04:38 PM
#60
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To me too. 
hey, in a nutshell. pobst was running brand new R6s and the GS BMW e46 M3 was sofros old car, and was not running balast. his times were in line with the top times ever posted by GS Rolex. (so it doesnt matter if he was lally gagging, but he was told to push the car by the owner. hoosiers, less weight, same or more hp than I have, you can do the math.
to answer your second question, I only have a bottom end change, thats why im not over 370rwhp with the stock engine set up up from 310ish when it was a pure stock 20 year old motor with headers, never touched since the day it was made. 600hp, (520rwhp is easy , but does cost money, i dont have to spend )
as far as bench racing. All of us of racers want to know how we stack up. its not a big stretch to run with someone or see someones time and guess what they have that you dont. From what ive seen, and pobst and other pros have seen this as well. Many can run a similar lap time in a similar car. As far as what ive talked about in WC, I have seen many of the cars, driven a couple and seen the dyno sheets. Again, I dont know what they are doing in ALMS GT2, nor do you. the RSR is a known quantity vs the cup car for example. the viper, at 8.3 ltiers, and coming from WCGT form, who knows what Feinberg had to do to make it GT2 legal. what is known, its faster than WCGT, and running on slicks, and over your 5.5liter limit, at 8.3L, but thats all I know.
back to the original question, so why does it seem your car is more powerful than the GS cars? is it your car's weight or something else?
I ask because you said your s54 motor doesnt even have a cam mod.
Edit: Bryan, havent you learned a lot from talking to folks at the track, club and pro and applied what you have learned to your car? I sure have. thought this was the place to see how things stack up, both driver and car. I guess not.
hey, in a nutshell. pobst was running brand new R6s and the GS BMW e46 M3 was sofros old car, and was not running balast. his times were in line with the top times ever posted by GS Rolex. (so it doesnt matter if he was lally gagging, but he was told to push the car by the owner. hoosiers, less weight, same or more hp than I have, you can do the math.
to answer your second question, I only have a bottom end change, thats why im not over 370rwhp with the stock engine set up up from 310ish when it was a pure stock 20 year old motor with headers, never touched since the day it was made. 600hp, (520rwhp is easy , but does cost money, i dont have to spend
) as far as bench racing. All of us of racers want to know how we stack up. its not a big stretch to run with someone or see someones time and guess what they have that you dont. From what ive seen, and pobst and other pros have seen this as well. Many can run a similar lap time in a similar car. As far as what ive talked about in WC, I have seen many of the cars, driven a couple and seen the dyno sheets. Again, I dont know what they are doing in ALMS GT2, nor do you. the RSR is a known quantity vs the cup car for example. the viper, at 8.3 ltiers, and coming from WCGT form, who knows what Feinberg had to do to make it GT2 legal. what is known, its faster than WCGT, and running on slicks, and over your 5.5liter limit, at 8.3L, but thats all I know.
back to the original question, so why does it seem your car is more powerful than the GS cars? is it your car's weight or something else?
I ask because you said your s54 motor doesnt even have a cam mod.
Edit: Bryan, havent you learned a lot from talking to folks at the track, club and pro and applied what you have learned to your car? I sure have. thought this was the place to see how things stack up, both driver and car. I guess not.
Yes, it is still a miracle to me that some team isn't paying you $100K a year to drive for them. You're easily better than Pobst. Your video and these bench racing specs prove it.
I have no idea what they were running when the car showed up at an SCCA race. For all I know they were on old **** tires and the car was running like crap. For all I know, they were sand bagging so that they didn't give anything away during their "testing". I also have no idea why you are running so little power in your car when you say it's easy to make 600 hp from a 928 over in the Corvette thread.
Ultimately, I think you spend way too much time thinking about what Jim John said their car was making on the dyno and comparing it to what Ben John was running at Laguna in Tim John's car against Kim John's car that everyone in the paddock has heard from Billy John Jimmy Johnson is making 750 hp on the dyno in order to come up with a justification for feeling good about your own laptimes. You take bench racing to an extreme that most only dream about. I've never heard someone throw out so many numbers about cars that they don't personally own or drive in my life.
I have no idea what they were running when the car showed up at an SCCA race. For all I know they were on old **** tires and the car was running like crap. For all I know, they were sand bagging so that they didn't give anything away during their "testing". I also have no idea why you are running so little power in your car when you say it's easy to make 600 hp from a 928 over in the Corvette thread.
Ultimately, I think you spend way too much time thinking about what Jim John said their car was making on the dyno and comparing it to what Ben John was running at Laguna in Tim John's car against Kim John's car that everyone in the paddock has heard from Billy John Jimmy Johnson is making 750 hp on the dyno in order to come up with a justification for feeling good about your own laptimes. You take bench racing to an extreme that most only dream about. I've never heard someone throw out so many numbers about cars that they don't personally own or drive in my life.
Last edited by mark kibort; 08-06-2009 at 05:01 PM.