Originally Posted by Bryan Watts

Originally Posted by Bryan Watts

Wait...you're comparing laps from different weekends to determine that Hoosiers are only a few tenths faster than Toyos? I've watched tracks change by over a second just during the course of a day, much less from weekend to weekend.

Originally Posted by Bryan Watts

Wait...you're comparing laps from different weekends to determine that Hoosiers are only a few tenths faster than Toyos? I've watched tracks change by over a second just during the course of a day, much less from weekend to weekend.

Originally Posted by Bryan Watts

Wait...you're comparing laps from different weekends to determine that Hoosiers are only a few tenths faster than Toyos? I've watched tracks change by over a second just during the course of a day, much less from weekend to weekend.

Originally Posted by mark kibort

I ran practice on the toyos and then qual and race were on hoosiers. as I suspected, at their limit, the car felt better, but it wasnt enough to shave more than a few tenths off. there certainly was no full second available. I had the tires more than a few times, over their limit. what they did give me, is what i expected. more consistantly fast laps at the edge. toyos take a lot more work to be as fast, and you do drive them differnet. what i was surprised, was that you could drive them close too how you drive the Hoosiers, whereas in the past, when the hoosiers gave out, they let go. (as I remember). anyway, I cant wait to run them again.
The chassis set up didnt require much change as there was even tire temps and they were slightly higher as well. braking was a little better under threashold conditions. but if you add up or watch side by side video vs the same hot lap, you can see there is slight difference in hand position showing that the understeer was fixed with the grippier front tires. You also have to realize, I have probably more race days at laguna than most and my times are pretty consistant. qual race qual race was: 1:37.7 1:37.5 1:37.6 1:37.8. Im always now under 1:38 with the toyos in qual, but never broke 1:38 in the race.

You always here that hoosiers are 1-2 seconds faster, but I certainly dont see how. And thats many cars see when going from toyos or R6s to slicks.
Hey, I really wanted a 1:36 at laguna. the cars that were running that speed, I had no chance for. Just watch the cadillac WCGT car. as he was getting faster, he ran the 1 second faster. I had no chance to get him with what i had. He ran around me on the straight, and hung with me in the turns. I dont think most realize what it takes to make a car go 1 second faster when you are ringing it out as it is!

IMHO

Originally Posted by karlooz

be sure to do your test with the same fuel load then. apple to apples comparison

Originally Posted by mark kibort

Bryan and VR, whats up with you two kids? Is this the value you provide for the list? Pure contrarian smart assing?

I might be wrong here, but some folks are racers here and like to hear of other racers experiences with all sorts variants of equipment and set up. I have some information that I feel is valuable, and others agree. Now, you two dont even own porsches, so what the heck are you doing here? Is this just cheap entertainment for you two? What happens is this valuable forum, just becomes a playground for you two and your insults. What it does, (from others that have emailed or private messaged me) is that it keeps folks from posting, due to fear of being blasted by you and your poor and cheap attemps at humor and some laughs. Sometimes you are sucessful, but most of the time, you just look like you are stroking youselves.

Now, my tire test is as valid as anything Bryan or you VR have tested. Im sure I have near as many wheel to wheel close and challenging races as anyone here. As far as the Toyos go, if you dont know how to drive them, it certainly can skew your data. style, car, driver, all sorts of variables are present.
Could my car set up change to take more available? Certainly. Again, lots of factors, but there are some REAL fast cars running RA1s and Toyo 888s. will a tire change buy them 2 seconds. probably not. I would bet that most top drivers can run a toyo R888 to near as fast as a hoosier. There even was test that tested many R compound tires with a pro driver and they didnt see much more than a few tenths for all different brands.
There are plenty of folks blaming their times on toyos after races Ive been in. A lot of racers look for a lot of excuses for poor performance. many competitors make all sorts of excuses for poor performances in any sport. Those that race with me know that I just race. I could care less if it rains and Im on slicks, track oiled, 100f, or freezing. I try and drive according to conditions to the limit of the car. I dont make excuses. Some might respect this, some just dont care. and thats fine.

When I say there is not 2 seconds between a toyo and a hoosier. Its my experience. I liked the feel of the hoosiers, certainly more sticky and more bite, but the toyos are pretty god as well. Its not like I havent driven a 5 second a lap tire like with WCGT when we ran the Toyo T1S 280treadwear street tires. Everyone was about 5 seconds off the pace. Putting hoosiers back on (or toyos) the time was regained the next time we all visited the track.

Anyway, I think we should keep this foum about racing an racing porsches. Its not a stage for cheapshots or insults as you seem to prefer VR.

Now, if you think you are a better driver, step up and prove it. We have cars available at Highplains raceway tentatively planned for Sept or Oct . Ill be there if VR or anyone else has the guts to show up.
We might even be able to have a good time and raise some money for some worthy causes.

Ok, off the soap box, and lets talk racing and lose the BS. Anyone with me?

mk

Originally Posted by mark kibort

Ok, off the soap box, and lets talk racing and lose the BS. Anyone with me?

Originally Posted by mark kibort

Now, you two dont even own porsches, so what the heck are you doing here?

Originally Posted by mark kibort

What it does, (from others that have emailed or private messaged me) is that it keeps folks from posting, due to fear of being blasted by you and your poor and cheap attemps at humor and some laughs.

Originally Posted by mark kibort

Now, my tire test is as valid as anything Bryan or you VR have tested.

Originally Posted by mark kibort

A lot of racers look for a lot of excuses for poor performance. many competitors make all sorts of excuses for poor performances in any sport. Those that race with me know that I just race.

Originally Posted by mark kibort

You are the one that said hoosiers are better than slicks on the first few laps.

Originally Posted by Bryan Watts

Sounds good. Let me lay it out for you then. Take it or leave it. It's probably worth what you paid for it.

I've watched a lot of your videos. I've read your posts about tires...you don't seem to pick up speed going from old to new Toyos. You don't even pick up speed going from old Toyos to newer Hoosiers. You say that you don't really see any lap time variance between different sessions, much less different weekends at the track. Between your videos and your lap times with different tires, I see a lot of red flags. You're hung up how "consistent" your lap times are as a justification for doing things "right" and proof that you're going as fast as you can go.

Here's my take: You're consistent...consistently on the slow side. I think your driving has reached a plateau and you're hanging out at the same lap times because you aren't driving consistently at the limit. Your tires, your car, and the track are not the limiting factors for you on any one day (i.e. the things that change), but rather you, the driver, are the limiting factor. You've gotta find a way to get over your driving plateau or you will continue to run "consistently" at the limit of your ability, no matter how much faster/slower the track is and no matter how much faster/slower your tires are (among numerous other changing factors that should be affecting your lap times). If you don't pick up some decent speed moving from Toyos to Hoosiers, it tells me that you simply aren't ramping your cornering and braking speeds up to take advantage of all of the additional grip.

In multiple videos you've posted, I see you turning in with massive amounts of understeer, letting the tires howl all the way to apex and then hammering the throttle, throwing the rear out...that's not fast driving, no matter how fast it may feel. Your technique could use some help from an instructor riding along with you. I'd recommend some data and putting someone else in your car to lay down a baseline on data and video.

I LIKE consistency in a driver...but I'm only worried about consistency over about a 30 minute period on the track. Any more than that, and changing track conditions, changing tire wear, etc begin to really limit how consistent the laptimes are going to be. I don't have a problem with my lap times going from 1:58's in the morning to 2:00 in the afternoon as long as my lap times in each of those sessions were consistent. Generally I can look at the time sheets and see the other fast guys losing time as well if the track has changed.



Me? I'm talking racing and staying somewhat entertained by your posts. Though I barely have the time or money to race at all these days, I like to remain a student of the sport. I like to read about setup differences between different cars. I like to know about new Porches and Porsche racing just as much as I like to know about BMW's. I still know a lot of guys who race Porsches, BMW's, and all sorts of other cars in World Challenge, Koni, Rolex, and ALMS, so I like to visit a few different forums to get news and because many of my friends post here and there.



And I've received multiple PM's and emails from folks who say that I'm fighting a losing battle with you. Their opinion seems to be that you simply like to argue and that you're constantly trying to justify yourself. Going back 10+ years on the BMW lists, where you were promoting your electric supercharger, I've seen you argue and argue and argue with folks who knew far more about the subject than yourself. I've watched you argue with people who have Masters and PhD's...everything they said went in one ear and out the other. I've seen you banned from multiple email lists because even after being asked to stop, you kept going...look at your string of 3-6 posts in a row on most any discussion thread for an example. To make sure I wasn't crazy, I went back to the archives of some old BMW lists and found similar examples.



So you've driven Hoosiers, Kumho's and Toyo's back to back to back on the same car and same track on the same day? Brand new, sticker tires, to rule out any wear variables? No, no you haven't. From what I can gather, you aren't even taking tire temps and making alignment changes to dial a car and set of tires into each track.

You yourself admit that you don't make any changes to the car or do any testing. I've spent hours driving around in circles on the skid pad tuning nothing but steady state cornering. I've driven for hours around the track, coming in every 2 laps to make setup changes to find the last tenth or so. I've run all sorts of data, from real time tire temps to shock absorber plots to most any driver input you could possibly want. I feel like I have a decent, even if it's been a limited (compared to many out there), understanding of what testing is and what it takes to get some quantifiable results from changes you make.

Sorry. Running a set of Toyo's a couple months ago and then a set of Hooiers a few months later and calling that a valid comparison just doesn't work. You constantly talk about how amazing it is that World Challenge cars run the laptimes they do on the tires and power they have...it's because they test, test, test and test some more. You might find some more speed on those Hoosiers if you apply a little bit of their methodology.

We may be running Hoosier R-comps again at an upcoming race due to the requirements of NASA's GTS class. Unfortunately, we'll also be running a detuned motor in order to drop to a lower class, so I won't be able to do any worthwhile tire comparisons. In talking to a Hoosier engineer, he shared that there's probably a 500 pound spring rate difference between the Hoosier slicks and the Hoosier A/R compound tires. Just the setup differences needed to account for difference that make your comparison invalid. Getting the alignment correct is just a starting point to changing a car setup for a particular tire. All of that said, based on what I've seen in a Spec Miata (where you are very limited in changes you can make), the difference between a Hoosier and a Toyo should still be very quantifiable without a setup change.



Mark, your posts are full of justifications about how you only have so much power, or how you are running on really old tires, or how you've never changed a bushing on your car, or how you never adjust the setup. You have more excuses than anyone. And then you add to that by trying to bench race every other car on the track, explaining how the cars ahead and behind you have "500+ rwhp" and patting yourself on the back for keeping up with them. The two videos you posted above both contain comments showing how much power you've heard that the other cars in front of you have. Honestly, I think you need to go back and read some of your posts.



I think you may be misunderstanding what I've said. I think Hoosiers come up to operating temps and gain grip faster than slicks. As to whether that makes them "faster" than slicks on any given lap...well, it depends on the driver, the car and setup, and the particular slicks we are talking about. That said, I've always been good on cold tires and I have a hard time out cornering the guys on Hoosiers in slower classed cars, with less sophisticated suspensions/chassis, that are starting behind me for the first 2-4 turns until I can stretch out a gap in a short straight and start to get some heat into the slicks. I'm sure Dave White can speak to his frustration of being held up for the first 1-2 laps by "faster" Modified cars on slicks in his "slower" Prepared car on R-comps.

It would take some more testing to be 100% sure, but if I were running a 3 lap time trial (like Time Attack, etc), my tendency would be to go with Hoosier A or R compounds over the slicks we normally run for longer sprint and endurance races.

Originally Posted by Bryan Watts

Sounds good. Let me lay it out for you then. Take it or leave it. It's probably worth what you paid for it.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks for taking the time to comment. I assume that you are sincere with the comments you made base on your preceptions.

I've watched a lot of your videos. I've read your posts about tires...you don't seem to pick up speed going from old to new Toyos. You don't even pick up speed going from old Toyos to newer Hoosiers. You say that you don't really see any lap time variance between different sessions, much less different weekends at the track. Between your videos and your lap times with different tires, I see a lot of red flags. You're hung up how "consistent" your lap times are as a justification for doing things "right" and proof that you're going as fast as you can go.

Here's my take: You're consistent...consistently on the slow side. I think your driving has reached a plateau and you're hanging out at the same lap times because you aren't driving consistently at the limit. Your tires, your car, and the track are not the limiting factors for you on any one day (i.e. the things that change), but rather you, the driver, are the limiting factor. You've gotta find a way to get over your driving plateau or you will continue to run "consistently" at the limit of your ability, no matter how much faster/slower the track is and no matter how much faster/slower your tires are (among numerous other changing factors that should be affecting your lap times). If you don't pick up some decent speed moving from Toyos to Hoosiers, it tells me that you simply aren't ramping your cornering and braking speeds up to take advantage of all of the additional grip
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< I understand what you are saying, but knowing Laguna as well as I do, and also having good experience with a pure street tire at laguna that was 5 seconds slower a lap with EVERYONE, i was able to adapt to drive that tire to its limits based on the limit of my cars potential. when going back to the hoosiers back in the day, the times went right back. I did laguna on those tires 2 different pro races. anyway, with using toyos for over 120 race days, Ive gotten pretty good with them. I only use almost brand new ones, probably in better shape than most you would see on any car other than one in SpeedGT. my cars alignment runs the tires well and have had only one bad day on the track with handling due to a tremendous oversteer caused by a new GT3 wing. after a splitter and some wing taken out, the car handles better and my times have improved slightly over the years. one of the things that i noticed most about the Hoosier was its better overalll grip. now, how much that helped me was about 1-2mph on critical turns like turn 6 (you can see this on the video) and more firmer braking with less lockup to the major braking zones like the corkscrew and turn 2. Now, plug that into any computer or telemetry or compare other mods you have done and that was a big improvement , and it was under .5 seconds In my book (I dont know about yours). 1 second was a lot of gosh darm money in that motor, but .5 seconds for just changing a tire set, was HUGE. Again, i think others see more, because of the track or that they dont know how to get the most out of a set of toyos.
In multiple videos you've posted, I see you turning in with massive amounts of understeer, letting the tires howl all the way to apex and then hammering the throttle, throwing the rear out...that's not fast driving, no matter how fast it may feel. Your technique could use some help from an instructor riding along with you. I'd recommend some data and putting someone else in your car to lay down a baseline on data and video
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I hear what you are saying , but thats not the way Im driving. Im not hammering the gas after the apex, I feel the rear and grip and apply power based on that limit. the car does have a natural amount of understeer, but with the hoosiers it was a lot less and if you noticed, turn in was easier and I was able to get on the gas slightly sooner. I would LOVE to have someone drive my car. But, again, you have to rememember what Im driving here. based on its hp and weight, and a little on its set up. Its beyond the speed some top drivers with much better cars.
Another thing Bryan you are going off so little. How do you know Im oversteering? are you comparing sterring wheel position to other cars? did you even watch my "fender cam" of the front wheel during a lap at laguna. do you know the steering ratio??? How fast should I be at laguna? what is a good time for a top pro at laguna in a car my weight and power now and recently You should know these things before you start judging my performances. I know you are frustrated that you are not driving any more, but dont take it out on me.

I LIKE consistency in a driver...but I'm only worried about consistency over about a 30 minute period on the track. Any more than that, and changing track conditions, changing tire wear, etc begin to really limit how consistent the laptimes are going to be. I don't have a problem with my lap times going from 1:58's in the morning to 2:00 in the afternoon as long as my lap times in each of those sessions were consistent. Generally I can look at the time sheets and see the other fast guys losing time as well if the track has changed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I study my consistantly at great lenght. one thing that I know that you might not by looking at my times is what was going on during those laps. traffic, intential resting of tires or brake, a problem, etc, all are part of the equation. during the race, Ill make a hand signal of some sort to show that was an all out lap and to use it as reference. usualy in the early laps and one near the end , especially in a heated battle where im out front. my times better never drop by 2 seconds or Im dead meat. I dont know what kind of racing you are doing, but if you drop 2 seconds due to anything with us, you are gone to the back of the group. 1:37-8 during clean laps, in all conditions is what you need to dow with our little group in a group of ITE cars, to compete. you drop to 1:39 and your fading to the back. I dont care if its 100 degrees or 50. The ONLY time times change that much is with a realy bad oiled track, as generally, my car has better power in the cold, but the tires are not as grippy. In the hot, the tires are better and the power is down. Kind of a trade off from what ive seen. I do wish i had some kind of accurate telemetry, but until that happens, video is still pretty good for segment times.



Me? I'm talking racing and staying somewhat entertained by your posts. Though I barely have the time or money to race at all these days, I like to remain a student of the sport. I like to read about setup differences between different cars. I like to know about new Porches and Porsche racing just as much as I like to know about BMW's. I still know a lot of guys who race Porsches, BMW's, and all sorts of other cars in World Challenge, Koni, Rolex, and ALMS, so I like to visit a few different forums to get news and because many of my friends post here and there.
<<<<<me too. Look, we are all racers here. Its kind of arrogant in my opion without knowing me or competiting against me to make SOME, not all of the comments you have made. one thing for sure I have a lot of friends and competitors that are racing in speedGT, touring, grand am, etc. trust me, many of them were not that great in club and are still not that good now, but many have improved and and have provent themselves as top drivers. In my opinion. this is where the rubber meets the road. Many of us can turn a hot lap in any car. the trick is can you do it for an hour? can you be fast through traffic? can you make the car last and not blow up or break? thats something Im very good at and have , like you , been a student of the sport. Im always reading, reviewing, thinking of ways to get better or to help others get better.
Thats why we are all here. we love the sport of racing and it is, a sport after all. Ive competed at very high levels in athletics, and have coached someone at one time to be #3 of all time in highschool track and field. I know what it takes to be on top. Unfortunately, in this sport, you need to know someone or need a boat load of money, neither of which I have. So, with what I have, I race.



And I've received multiple PM's and emails from folks who say that I'm fighting a losing battle with you. Their opinion seems to be that you simply like to argue and that you're constantly trying to justify yourself. Going back 10+ years on the BMW lists, where you were promoting your electric supercharger, I've seen you argue and argue and argue with folks who knew far more about the subject than yourself. I've watched you argue with people who have Masters and PhD's...everything they said went in one ear and out the other. I've seen you banned from multiple email lists because even after being asked to stop, you kept going...look at your string of 3-6 posts in a row on most any discussion thread for an example. To make sure I wasn't crazy, I went back to the archives of some old BMW lists and found similar examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>yes, to a fault Bryan, i argue when someone is clearly wrong or misinformed. But most of all I argue with folks that have no intention of listening to any facts at all which I provided. I dont get this information out of my head, but from instructors, teachers, physics professors, and authorties that have helped me over the years. Many topics of discussion are not as intuitive as they may seem. Yes, I was involved in discussions with the BMW board, but the things they saying were uniformed and clearly, they didnt have a clue to the technology I was promoting. My fault for getting involve with them, but in the end, with all the dyno sheets, copies of physics text, debunking any and all claims, they just wanted to have fun bashing. For, example, the were saying thing like "the eram would provide more restriction than normal, or that the energy drawn by the alternator would negate any gains, or you cant make pressure ou of this eRAM , or you cant match the air flow of an engine" All of which an more, I was able to produced facts to show PROOF that alll the claims we were and are making are true. We absolultey increase Intake air pressure with the eRAM. Any moron can see that if you do this, you will gain power. how much and is the car capable of using it, is only the debate. By the way, it was that list that just imploded and there was no others. There is a way to discuss something. That was not the way. we all have opinions, but if we can not back anything up, what is the use of discussing, especially if you are not willing to learn or listen? Just like the HP torque discussion. This is a field that I am proficient in. I gave VR and the list two hp vs torque curves of two different cars, one with much greater torque than the other car, numerically. yet, no one would concied that the lower torque engine profile was better. VR was just trying to fight and his point really was about in general terms, where yes, he is right. Usually, the greater torque engines, same HP are better. Again, any of my discussions I provide actual facts and examples while guys like VR are just good at posting pictures.


So you've driven Hoosiers, Kumho's and Toyo's back to back to back on the same car and same track on the same day? Brand new, sticker tires, to rule out any wear variables? No, no you haven't. From what I can gather, you aren't even taking tire temps and making alignment changes to dial a car and set of tires into each track.
>>>>>>>>>>>>as I adressed this , yes, I ran the toyos first and then the hoosiers within hours of each other. The times of that practice was not valuable due to no clean laps, but it was right in line for how much traffic there was and hitting my "marks" which narrows down my guess of a time pretty easily. For you , I will get a clean lap with the toyos at Thunderhill in a couple weeks and do a better comparison . as long as I get a clean lap, Ill run 1:59.9 with the toyos and 1:59.5 as a new best lap with the hoosiers. (you heard it hear so make a note of it. )

You yourself admit that you don't make any changes to the car or do any testing. I've spent hours driving around in circles on the skid pad tuning nothing but steady state cornering. I've driven for hours around the track, coming in every 2 laps to make setup changes to find the last tenth or so. I've run all sorts of data, from real time tire temps to shock absorber plots to most any driver input you could possibly want. I feel like I have a decent, even if it's been a limited (compared to many out there), understanding of what testing is and what it takes to get some quantifiable results from changes you make.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>There are many tracks where this kind of testing would yeld some better results. I do think I have a welll handling car, thought I would like to take out some understeer. the larger front tires were a test that helped, but its still not there. Laguna is a point and shoot track that doesnt pay as much dividents as say a track like Sears or willowsprings for obvious reasons.
You also have to realize that the 928 has a pretty unique suspension and geometry that is really good on tires and can be very fast with little tuning effort as Anderson has proved. You cant knock his top 10 WC GT places with a car like mine on steroids. I run with the bmw guys. I see them chasing their tails with anything like a PTG copy motorsport BMW build to a hopped up E36. I dont have to do NEAR as much as those guys do to be fast. I put that car together with known settings and it was racing its first weekend out and I havent really changed it since! (and that was 7.5 years ago!)



Sorry. Running a set of Toyo's a couple months ago and then a set of Hooiers a few months later and calling that a valid comparison just doesn't work. You constantly talk about how amazing it is that World Challenge cars run the laptimes they do on the tires and power they have...it's because they test, test, test and test some more. You might find some more speed on those Hoosiers if you apply a little bit of their methodology.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<Yes, they have amazing resourse, but others in WC do not. Gunter just bought that new viper because he was getting his *** handed to him. (he is a rookie pro and wasnt even a real seasoned club guy, though reasonalbly quick in a pretty hot ride) He had no testing done, yet he was leading the times at the one of the races this year. His problem has been keeping the car on track. that is something I was refering to earlier. we all can run hot times, even some of the new guys after a couple of seasons. BUT, do it in the race, under pressure, off line, with someone in your mirrors, while you are strategizing to pass the guy in front of you...... Now, thats RACECRAFT!



We may be running Hoosier R-comps again at an upcoming race due to the requirements of NASA's GTS class. Unfortunately, we'll also be running a detuned motor in order to drop to a lower class, so I won't be able to do any worthwhile tire comparisons. In talking to a Hoosier engineer, he shared that there's probably a 500 pound spring rate difference between the Hoosier slicks and the Hoosier A/R compound tires. Just the setup differences needed to account for difference that make your comparison invalid. Getting the alignment correct is just a starting point to changing a car setup for a particular tire. All of that said, based on what I've seen in a Spec Miata (where you are very limited in changes you can make), the difference between a Hoosier and a Toyo should still be very quantifiable without a setup change.
>>>>>>>>> AS someone one said, if you get one kind of tire to work well, it more than likely will work for another. the hoosier seemed to be doing its job. it was just as I expected. more grip and bite all the way around AND, it was pretty forgiving as the toyo was as it broke loose. I was expecting that slip and then SLIP OUT, type of feeling. it was very nice and predictable. what I did see was the fact that I could run faster times more consistantly and through traffic that wasnt the same for the toyos . on the edge sliding around, and no margin for error through traffic caused those laps to be 1 second slower i would guess. does that make sense? one more thing that proved my exit speeds were faster and there was more grip, i was getting some limited slip tire spin because of the increased body roll Certanly , I could use more spring. but for someone to toss out a spring value without knowing the car is silly as the motion ration needs to be known we run 750 and 475 f/r springs BMWs us something totally different. however, I know anderson is running near 800 lb front and 550 lb rears with good luck and he has tried much higher with poor results. He does woop everyone when he runs laguna running a 1:31.8 as his best when he won the POC race here a couple of years ago 485rwhp and 2650lbs on real slicks



Mark, your posts are full of justifications about how you only have so much power, or how you are running on really old tires, or how you've never changed a bushing on your car, or how you never adjust the setup. You have more excuses than anyone. And then you add to that by trying to bench race every other car on the track, explaining how the cars ahead and behind you have "500+ rwhp" and patting yourself on the back for keeping up with them. The two videos you posted above both contain comments showing how much power you've heard that the other cars in front of you have. Honestly, I think you need to go back and read some of your posts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bryan, I do post a lot of that , as it is the truth. you know my hp, and you know what a WC GT viper or a Comp coupe stock runs. they both have just under 500rwhp and just over 500rwhp. I cant help it if they are not getting the most out of those cars. my posts regarding my posts are nothing more than facts . the 20 year old stuff , is just for fun. my car is in pretty good shape. sure, its old and the shock are shot, and its undersprung and running on the bump stops, but the car runs strong you have to admit. Those are not excuses, those are reasons. 365rwhp at 3000lbs can only go so far, right? I think Im making the most of it, and have been lucky that the tracks are not faster and more demanding than sears and laguna in those areas of suspension tuning. not that laguna is not demanding, but its just different when you look at 130mph top speeds with no turns over 80mph vs track back east like RA where my car might be dangerous without more spring and some better shocks settings.



I think you may be misunderstanding what I've said. I think Hoosiers come up to operating temps and gain grip faster than slicks. As to whether that makes them "faster" than slicks on any given lap...well, it depends on the driver, the car and setup, and the particular slicks we are talking about. That said, I've always been good on cold tires and I have a hard time out cornering the guys on Hoosiers in slower classed cars, with less sophisticated suspensions/chassis, that are starting behind me for the first 2-4 turns until I can stretch out a gap in a short straight and start to get some heat into the slicks. I'm sure Dave White can speak to his frustration of being held up for the first 1-2 laps by "faster" Modified cars on slicks in his "slower" Prepared car on R-comps.

It would take some more testing to be 100% sure, but if I were running a 3 lap time trial (like Time Attack, etc), my tendency would be to go with Hoosier A or R compounds over the slicks we normally run for longer sprint and endurance races.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It could be your style, who knows. But from what Ive seen and heard that is not the case. maybe on a real cold day or something.
The guys on slicks that are going back and forth with hoosiers and slicks are seeing 1 second differences rigth out of the shoot! maybe you are not warming your tires up properly, or you cant due to a slow pace car.