Viper vs GT3 cup at the Nurburgring
05-07-2009, 03:08 PM
#31
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05-07-2009, 03:22 PM
#32
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I don't know anything about the track configuration...but I do know that both cars got held up significantly multiple times during that lap.
Which is it?
05-07-2009, 03:31 PM
#33
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Im not even going to go into HP/weight. So, lets stay with Force/weight ratio. Both are pretty close. The extra lightness of the GT3 should give it advantages in braking and cornering, but the viper has bigger tires and is wider. Both are close, but the viper seems to have a slight Force/weight advantage as shown by the straight line high speed.
05-07-2009, 03:41 PM
#34
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That could be looked at a little closer, but I would think the less frontal area of the 911 might be in the same proportions to the lesser hp it possess as well.
As a note, the viper seemed to get stacked up behind that traffic down that main straight, as it appeared that the 911 might have been along side downt he straight and got "picked".
From the video, i would agree, the Viper seemed faster. But, in a series race form, this probably would not be the case. remember, Comp coup vs cup car.
Put the RSR in the mix and it would have been bye bye.
mk
As a note, the viper seemed to get stacked up behind that traffic down that main straight, as it appeared that the 911 might have been along side downt he straight and got "picked".
From the video, i would agree, the Viper seemed faster. But, in a series race form, this probably would not be the case. remember, Comp coup vs cup car.
Put the RSR in the mix and it would have been bye bye.
mk
When it comes to ultimate straight line speed, I'd be far less worried about power/weight and far more worried about power/drag. Besides, the Viper was PASSED on the long straight and seemed to be faster in the turns. I would expect it to be faster at turn entry, but I was surprised to see it faster at apex and exit as well.
05-07-2009, 03:44 PM
#35
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Yep, and if there was not traffic, the would have been every bit as fast as the ACR video'ed record time of 7:22 for that " track configuration".
What do you mean, "Which is" what?
mk
What do you mean, "Which is" what?
mk
05-07-2009, 04:20 PM
#36
VLN uses a different regulation than standard FIA. So a modified Cup here is not truly comparable to a Cup S for example. I presume the Viper CC is also modified quite a bit. The track itself is also a bit special regarding setup compared to other. Both in gearing and aero package. This can make quite some difference. Noticeable for example on the long up-hill straight at the end, but also in other sections. Regarding the driving style, defending corners, traffic etc.. those are all components that can throw you off-line which the ring is a bit sensitive to and make you slower.
The video is great fun to watch, but I'd be a bit afraid of draw too many conclusions from it. It's a mess in many aspects and also a great challenge. Hence the nick name "The Mother"...
The video is great fun to watch, but I'd be a bit afraid of draw too many conclusions from it. It's a mess in many aspects and also a great challenge. Hence the nick name "The Mother"...
05-07-2009, 04:41 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
Agreed!
I think my only point was to the fact that there are a few different track configurations, but if you are comparing these two cars to other "fast" cars, they are certainly in the same ball bark, all other factors being equal.
7:22 is a pretty fast time, and these two cars would have been under that if not for the major traffic and defensive driving shown by the rallying Viper and Porsche GT3.
What is a top time for someone like Hans Stuck in a BMW GTR? Sports car record in any class? (non open wheel or spec racer)?
mk
I think my only point was to the fact that there are a few different track configurations, but if you are comparing these two cars to other "fast" cars, they are certainly in the same ball bark, all other factors being equal.
7:22 is a pretty fast time, and these two cars would have been under that if not for the major traffic and defensive driving shown by the rallying Viper and Porsche GT3.
What is a top time for someone like Hans Stuck in a BMW GTR? Sports car record in any class? (non open wheel or spec racer)?
mk
VLN uses a different regulation than standard FIA. So a modified Cup here is not truly comparable to a Cup S for example. I presume the Viper CC is also modified quite a bit. The track itself is also a bit special regarding setup compared to other. Both in gearing and aero package. This can make quite some difference. Noticeable for example on the long up-hill straight at the end, but also in other sections. Regarding the driving style, defending corners, traffic etc.. those are all components that can throw you off-line which the ring is a bit sensitive to and make you slower.
The video is great fun to watch, but I'd be a bit afraid of draw too many conclusions from it. It's a mess in many aspects and also a great challenge. Hence the nick name "The Mother"...
The video is great fun to watch, but I'd be a bit afraid of draw too many conclusions from it. It's a mess in many aspects and also a great challenge. Hence the nick name "The Mother"...
05-07-2009, 04:55 PM
#38
Agreed!
I think my only point was to the fact that there are a few different track configurations, but if you are comparing these two cars to other "fast" cars, they are certainly in the same ball bark, all other factors being equal.
7:22 is a pretty fast time, and these two cars would have been under that if not for the major traffic and defensive driving shown by the rallying Viper and Porsche GT3.
What is a top time for someone like Hans Stuck in a BMW GTR? Sports car record in any class? (non open wheel or spec racer)?
mk
I think my only point was to the fact that there are a few different track configurations, but if you are comparing these two cars to other "fast" cars, they are certainly in the same ball bark, all other factors being equal.
7:22 is a pretty fast time, and these two cars would have been under that if not for the major traffic and defensive driving shown by the rallying Viper and Porsche GT3.
What is a top time for someone like Hans Stuck in a BMW GTR? Sports car record in any class? (non open wheel or spec racer)?
mk
Those are also set on full lap Nordschleife only. Since the races need the paddocks, they include the GP track and therefore get a different track layout.
But a guesstimate; The old GTR should be like a 996 RSR, so 6:xx something on a Nordschleife full lap?
05-07-2009, 05:41 PM
#39
05-07-2009, 06:06 PM
#40
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From my recollection from a Scuderia Hanseat school I attended there in '93, the track configuration depicted is the full course, both Nordschleife (old north course) and the GP track (built on the site of the old south course). This configuration is used for schools and the enduro's run at the 'Ring. The times that are posted as "Ring Times" are most often just the north course which is used daily by the public or by private groups for testing.
Cheers,
Cheers,
05-07-2009, 07:47 PM
#43
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After actually watching the video, all I can say is that guy in Viper needs some basic racing and trafficking lessons. He is driving about and inch in front of his nose both literally and figuratively. Unless you are in the midst of making a move there is a certain acceptable distance you leave between you and the car in front, close enough that you can capitalize on a mistake and far enough you don't get collected by that mistake....
05-07-2009, 08:29 PM
#44
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After actually watching the video, all I can say is that guy in Viper needs some basic racing and trafficking lessons. He is driving about and inch in front of his nose both literally and figuratively. Unless you are in the midst of making a move there is a certain acceptable distance you leave between you and the car in front, close enough that you can capitalize on a mistake and far enough you don't get collected by that mistake....
05-07-2009, 09:15 PM
#45
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I have to agree that he was pretty skilled. He got hosed in traffic, but didnt push the issue in traffic either. Notice a few times when the porsche got through , he would look to the inside of a slower type car, and when the guy started to close the door, he went to the outside, or waited to pass off line. He was right on the bumper, and maybe in some areas he could have backed off and got a better run. When ever he didnt get a break though traffic, he certainly was able to make up 10 carl lengths pretty quickly.