M758

Ok guys,

I would like your opinions on this. To set the stage.

Contact occurs just after the 4:30 mark in the video. It occurs between the black 944 and red/white 944 (obviously me). It was very light contact, but did cause two dents. The camera car is another 944 chasing, but not involved.

http://www.vimeo.com/2806217

Group was NASA with no 13/13 rule, but who is at fault? If you had 13/13 like PCA who would get it?

Just interested in some opinions about it. Thanks.

Jarez Mifkin

Do you have video from you car?

M758

No!

Jarez Mifkin

It looks like the black car carried more speed thru the turn allowing him to get ahead of you. Had the other red car not been to your outside, the event wouldn't have happened as you wouldn't have been forced down into the black car. I'm not a scrut, so I'm not going to guess at who would get the 13 in PCA.

gums

I'd love to see this but I always have trouble with vimeo when it's a big file. Edit it down to the chase.

APKhaos

You appear to have turned down [left] quite hard, which led to the impact. You may have been trying to keep clear of the red car on your outside, although its hard to judge without being more familiar with the shape of the track there. It wasn't clear to me if the outside car was coming down on you because he was running out of track or because he wanted to squeeze you a little.

It might have been one of those cases where it was better to let him contact you in preference to hitting the car on your inside in the process of trying to avoid being hit by the car on the outside. The indside guy was positioned well ahead of you in the corner, which makes it even tougher to explain to the stewards.

eclou

how far into the video is it?

Jarez Mifkin

Really?

eclou

mark kibort

Thats a real tough one. I had to watch that a few times. the outside car did cause you to go a little farther inside than you wanted to, then contacting the most inside car slightly. you need to give racing room and that caused you to touch the inside car, who was the innocent bystander.

I have to say, it was kind of the outside car passing that caused the incident, but it looks like a "racing incident" me. If it was BMWCCA, all 3 cars would get the 13/13.

mk

NJcroc

I think the logical way of thinking is the inside guy was inocent as he had the corner and held his line, you shouldnt have hit him, should we ever really hit anyone? The monday morning quaterback would say you should have held tight to him, without contact and made the outside guy give you room or hit you and be squarely wrong in doing so

Obviously this is very easy to say by a computer not a racecar

M758

Just to make it clear as the video can be little hard. Going into the sequence of corners off the main straight where you set up for these two was

Red car
red/white (me)
black car

Also as you complete the left hander it tightens down to what is mostly 1 car wide. However two cars can just get by if one hops the curb on the right with either 2 or 4 wheels.

Watch this corner on the laps prior and you can see how it funnels down.

BTW.. thanks for the input. I will provide my vantage point once more opinions come in.

333pg333

I tend to think it's partially due to coming into that decreasing radius turn/s at highish speed so you're all decelerating and look to be just a bit unsettled. As you say it does funnel in. It looks like just before the black guy came across your line you actually went a bit to the right perhaps still hard under brakes, and then he cuts back and you take evasive action all the while the inside car has put himself pretty deep past you but he has to come out a little and that's when you get sandwiched. It mostly looks like a racing incident to me but from what I read of that 13/13 rule, you almost need to have your attorney riding shotgun with you. I'm surprised that they don't make it mandatory to have cameras in all the cars. All in all I'd say you were a bit unlucky but that little shift to the right may have got you into the trouble in the first place.
IMHO

PedroNole

Black car definitely took a shallow line and took "your" line away. It looks like he was so shallow, that he even got the back end a little loose right before contact. As he was taking away your inside line, the outside car was turning down hard. Had the outside car not turned in so hard, you would have probably been ok.

However, as both of these things were happening simultaneously, you had to hit the brakes/get off the gas to avoid the outside guy turning in on you and it unsettled the car causing you to waggle and hit the guy on the left.

IMO, the outside guy caused the accident. Even though the inside guy took your line away, he would have made a clean pass but for your waggle. You were sandwiched. The outside guy should have given you room. Now, I'm not an expert on the 13/13 but even though I think the outside guy caused it, you and he both would have gotten a 13/13.

Van

I'm no scrut. either... but I had a slightly similar experience, and got the 13/13 under the logic: I could have backed out of it slightly and avoided all contact (part of the "co-existence" rule).

Likewise, I think if you have slowed down right before you contacted the black car, you could have tucked behind him.

But that may be why some people like racing with NASA vs PCA - a little more freedom on the track!