Trailer enforcement warning (or, your government $ at work) (a bit long)
07-15-2008, 12:55 PM
#46
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I got pulled over in FL on my way to Sebring after blowing by a weigh station. I got quizzed about what was in the trailer, whether or not I was commercial etc. Luckily, my truck is in my name. Not sure about the trailer although I think it is too. He was cool but did measure me to see if I was less than 65 feet long (IIRC). I was two feet short.
It's hard to beat the system anymore. I just titled the truck in my name and took the hit on depreciation rather than deal with the PITA it would be to have a commercial truck and trailer (higher cost of insurance and higher limits etc).
I got pulled over on my way to Mid-Ohio and learned that my truck and trailer must obey the 55 mph speed limit. I thought the 55 mph only dealt with commercial vehicles. I was pleading, "but I've taken great pains not to be commercial". It is all about the weight not commercial v. non-commercial. This was news to me, as I never really read the sign closely. I told the cop, as he was explaining the ticket to me for 72 in a 55 that I've unknowingly been speeding everywhere I have been going for the last two years.
I knew that putting a name or really much of anything on the side of either vehicle (tow or trailer) was a big red flag. I keep thinking I should put NOT FOR HIRE on the side of the trailer just to be sure.
It's hard to beat the system anymore. I just titled the truck in my name and took the hit on depreciation rather than deal with the PITA it would be to have a commercial truck and trailer (higher cost of insurance and higher limits etc).
I got pulled over on my way to Mid-Ohio and learned that my truck and trailer must obey the 55 mph speed limit. I thought the 55 mph only dealt with commercial vehicles. I was pleading, "but I've taken great pains not to be commercial". It is all about the weight not commercial v. non-commercial. This was news to me, as I never really read the sign closely. I told the cop, as he was explaining the ticket to me for 72 in a 55 that I've unknowingly been speeding everywhere I have been going for the last two years.
I knew that putting a name or really much of anything on the side of either vehicle (tow or trailer) was a big red flag. I keep thinking I should put NOT FOR HIRE on the side of the trailer just to be sure.
I don't stop @ Florida weigh stations BUT I always stop @ the Ag inspection stations with my enclosed trailer.
Peter
07-15-2008, 01:22 PM
#47
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07-15-2008, 01:53 PM
#48
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2nd link in my rant now fixed...if you don't feel like scrolling back, scroll down to "Question 21":
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...738&guidence=Y
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...738&guidence=Y
Guidance: The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation, provided: (1) The underlying activities are not undertaken for profit, i.e., (a) prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes, and (b) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes; and, where relevant; (2) corporate sponsorship is not involved. Drivers must confer with their State of licensure to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject.
07-15-2008, 02:44 PM
#49
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What I can't find is a clear definition of what a CMV (Commercial Motor Vehicle) is. The Question 21 example is nice, but it is in reference to CMV's.
I would like to have something that shows that if you are a private owner with a privately owned truck and trailer you are not a CMV.
Looking at this another way, I printed up the info and form for applying for a USDOT number. I think it shows that a private owner not conducting commerce does not qualify--I don't know-- it is worth a try. I would be seriously pissed if I was detained 10 hours for no reason. I have a SRW Ford F-250 and 28ft tag-- no stickers or markings on either.
Thanks for the heads-up and all the info.
Link to application. Good definitions of different CMV classes.
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/documents/f...s-and-Form.pdf
I would like to have something that shows that if you are a private owner with a privately owned truck and trailer you are not a CMV.
Looking at this another way, I printed up the info and form for applying for a USDOT number. I think it shows that a private owner not conducting commerce does not qualify--I don't know-- it is worth a try. I would be seriously pissed if I was detained 10 hours for no reason. I have a SRW Ford F-250 and 28ft tag-- no stickers or markings on either.
Thanks for the heads-up and all the info.
Link to application. Good definitions of different CMV classes.
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/documents/f...s-and-Form.pdf
07-15-2008, 03:44 PM
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Hi Doug
My pleasure; you should have seen how much fun we had peeling off our stupid little sign stickers during our 10 hour 'sit in the corner' time; at least it gave us something to do.
My call Monday (with state DOT officer) seemed to include the message to me that having a DOT # is not something you want to have if you are not required to have it (comes with all kinds of baggage).
My pleasure; you should have seen how much fun we had peeling off our stupid little sign stickers during our 10 hour 'sit in the corner' time; at least it gave us something to do.
My call Monday (with state DOT officer) seemed to include the message to me that having a DOT # is not something you want to have if you are not required to have it (comes with all kinds of baggage).
07-15-2008, 04:00 PM
#52
Burning Brakes
YOU DO NOT WANT A US DOT #.
Trust me on this one. As I mentioned before, here at work - even though we're not moving anything "for hire" - we've got a few vehicles in the fleet that do require US DOT registration, and I pulled the short straw and got the responsibility to keep it all in order. Pain-in-the-***.
07-15-2008, 04:54 PM
#54
Race Director
The thing that I find really sad here is that there is so much conflicting information. It is not that the other posters are the problem, but the rules seem so abigious so much of the time.
The simple fact is that 95% of us are not doing this for a buiness. It is all about a hobby. We may get sponsor to fork over $500 here and there and then put their name on the car. Why? Well firstly to give some attention to those that helped out and also since no decals just makes the cars not feel like race cars. Often times we joke that stickers add 50hp, but for most of us racers stickers make the cars feel more like race cars and thus we feel like it is more fun. Dumb to besure, but hey... what is that harm as we are out there for fun anyway.
That brings up the larger point. We do this for fun and all the published rules are such that guys doing things for fun are NOT commercial. It is common theme in the rules, but the wording is such that it all seems to depend on how it is interpreted. It is not about the weight as RV's are darn heavy yet they all get a pass. As they should since they are pleasure craft.
The sad thing is that every year guys nailed for not following commerical regs when we are simply not commercial. You would think given the intent of rules we would be in the clear, but obviously some dispute that.
This does not even bring up the point of proper pro race teams that do have racing as a business and how they get by this. Or the shop that transports cars to the track or bring their car and a customer car. Honestly I can see all this confusion for these guys, but some dude with trailer? Sad indeed.
BTW...
What do think if you see this 3/4 ton truck with contractor shell and open trailer. Commercial or not? (truck is not commerical registered and is not used for any business purpose). Am I inviting trouble?
The simple fact is that 95% of us are not doing this for a buiness. It is all about a hobby. We may get sponsor to fork over $500 here and there and then put their name on the car. Why? Well firstly to give some attention to those that helped out and also since no decals just makes the cars not feel like race cars. Often times we joke that stickers add 50hp, but for most of us racers stickers make the cars feel more like race cars and thus we feel like it is more fun. Dumb to besure, but hey... what is that harm as we are out there for fun anyway.
That brings up the larger point. We do this for fun and all the published rules are such that guys doing things for fun are NOT commercial. It is common theme in the rules, but the wording is such that it all seems to depend on how it is interpreted. It is not about the weight as RV's are darn heavy yet they all get a pass. As they should since they are pleasure craft.
The sad thing is that every year guys nailed for not following commerical regs when we are simply not commercial. You would think given the intent of rules we would be in the clear, but obviously some dispute that.
This does not even bring up the point of proper pro race teams that do have racing as a business and how they get by this. Or the shop that transports cars to the track or bring their car and a customer car. Honestly I can see all this confusion for these guys, but some dude with trailer? Sad indeed.
BTW...
What do think if you see this 3/4 ton truck with contractor shell and open trailer. Commercial or not? (truck is not commerical registered and is not used for any business purpose). Am I inviting trouble?
07-15-2008, 05:01 PM
#55
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07-15-2008, 05:22 PM
#56
Race Director
07-15-2008, 05:35 PM
#57
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....................................
BTW...
What do think if you see this 3/4 ton truck with contractor shell and open trailer. Commercial or not? (truck is not commerical registered and is not used for any business purpose). Am I inviting trouble?
............................................................
BTW...
What do think if you see this 3/4 ton truck with contractor shell and open trailer. Commercial or not? (truck is not commerical registered and is not used for any business purpose). Am I inviting trouble?
............................................................
What a punch of bureaucratic crap-o-la!
07-16-2008, 07:47 AM
#58
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CDL exclusion
Personal vehicles(including rental vehicles) up to 26,000 lbs GVWR when operated strictly and
exclusively to transport personal possessions or family members for non-commercial purposes."
exclusively to transport personal possessions or family members for non-commercial purposes."
One thing I do is carry a copy of the DOT regualtion that it is legal to carry LESS THAN 500 lbs of flamable liquid without placard. (55 gal drum = 330Lbs) I do this for crossing the Canadian boarder where I have had the inside of trailer checked going both ways. Never had fuel questioned but just firgured it would not hurt to show I was following US DOT law if someone questioned it.
I had my ATC 40' gooseneck delivered with a de-rated GVWR tag so my 3500 dually and trailer are under 26000.
Enforcement is all over the place state to state all you can do is take you best shot and hope.
07-16-2008, 05:19 PM
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Hi Bill
Thanks for the input; I am beginning to conclude that taking off the signs will get me by. I sure don't want the DOT # if I can help it; can you imagine having to stop at the check stations?
Long time no see; we were up at LCMT with NER. Had a blast. Bill Rudtner was paddocked right next to me.
Thanks for the input; I am beginning to conclude that taking off the signs will get me by. I sure don't want the DOT # if I can help it; can you imagine having to stop at the check stations?
Long time no see; we were up at LCMT with NER. Had a blast. Bill Rudtner was paddocked right next to me.
