MTosi

mabye I'm old fashioned, but three years in cars (this applies to all drivers) isn't nearly enough to be qualified for F1, but then again the car and the sport have been dumbed down enough so rookies can get away with far to much. I distinctly remember watching monaco last year, hamilton hit/bounced off the wall FIVE TIMES, thats not precise or good driving, if you did that in the era when F1 drivers were men he'd be dead (think lorenzo bandini's fatal crash at monaco when his concentration lapsed for a split second and he kissed a haybail rolled and the car exploded)

Circuit Motorsports

He's as qualified as many people who have ended up in F1.

FWIW Alonso's first race out of karts was in 1999 and his first F1 start was in 2001 (2 years). Michael Schumacher first car race was in 1988 and first F1 race was in 1991(3 years). I believe Senna's first car race was in 81 and his first f1 race was in 85 (4years). Jim Clark went from first race in 56 to F1 in 1961.

MTosi

I'm realy talking about mid eighties and earlier, clark had 5 years of cars which is about what I would say qualifies one, senna had 4 years which is plenty. For some reason 3 just seems a little short to me. Then again they don't have to learn how to shift and work 3 pedals, so thats a year if not two you can knock of the learning curve.

Lothar

A.Wayne, I'll not be leaving. I'll just not be conversing with you, a skull full of sheep dip, and refuse to waste any more of my time on such an ignorant piece of crap.

Who moderates this forum? I guess there is a high tolerance for personal insults and childish name-calling. I asked a simple question, aimed at no one, and I get insulted by someone who clearly knows little about F1, other than what he can cut and paste from articles he finds online.

Circuit Motorsports

But Clark had 5 years of racing total.

Karting has changed the landscape a lot from teh 70-80's up. Hamilton has been racing for something like 15 years. Karting vs. cars it's still racing.

MTosi

I karted for 5 or 6 years, ran shifters, rotaxes, briggs etc. won lots of races got pretty far along in the red bull F1 driver search, and am running various cars now. I realy don't feel as if karts prepare drivers enough to be in F1 in three years, does it help, yes, is it good experience, yes but does it train you of the consequences of getting a car lose at 180mph and managing that amount of weight or the consequences of hitting a wall at that speed. But then again when you've been driving Mclaren prepared vehicles and formula cars that handle insanly well I suppose it does. I guess I'm too busy trying to manage the weight of a 2,800 pound car on semi stock suspension, so I suppose thats why I don't feel the karting relates that much. I think I'm going to start a thread about karts to cars.

Lothar

There has definitely been a shift in how super licenses are issued. Recall that Kimi was granted only a probational super license when he made his debut with Sauber in 2001. The concern was Kimi's mere 23 races in a "car".

Did the FIA just get more comfortable with the ability of teams to evaluate talent, as well as skill, or did the need to elevate tomorrows next superstar with Schumacher retiring outweigh the safety concerns around inexperienced drivers?

A.Wayne

Yes there is , the fact that you are still here after such a post solidify s that . Now keep a check on your own insults internet tough guy
Go get some milkey and calm down .......

A.Wayne

It's different now , with paddle shifters and simulators , data aq systems , chassis rigs , etc,etc you can bring a driver up to speed very fast , in the old days it was all natural coupled with experience they buy that experience now with electronics

MJSpeed

Not to take away from Lewis....but...

Senna's first year in F1 was '84 in a piece of **** Toleman, in car that had a hard time qualifying (when it was really qualifying not grid position determination), he managed a "phenomenal" second place in Monaco in the rain against drivers in better equipment...not just drivers but World Champions like Prost, Mansell, Lauda, Rosberg, Piquet...Monaco in 1984 in the rain with a Toleman, a "real" gearbox, with "real" shifting and zero electronic driver aids, nothing but skill and courage did I mention this was the sixth race of his rookie year!! That's a phenom! I ask that all of you refrain from mention Lewis or any other drover of this era in the same sentence with late Great Ayrton Senna.

Oh btw he (Senna) passed the race leader (Prost) half way through the next lap but unfortunately for Senna the race was stopped seconds later, he never completed a lap as leader and therefore the last leader wins the race...Alain Prost could thank his countryman Jean Marie Balestre (FIA President at the time) for that win and the 1989 World Championship.

A.Wayne

+20
Ironic that by stopping the race early and denying Senna a possible Victory it ended up costing Prost the WDC as he only received 1/2 points for the win , 4.5 ended up losing to lauda by 1/2 a point , if the race was stopped 2 laps later giving Senna the victory , Prost would have received full points for second place giving him the WDC later that year ........

MJSpeed

Yes it's ironic...I thought of that many times...cheaters never win, am I not correct Mr. Dennis.

A.Wayne

Last but not least,

It was also a blow to Toleman who could have used that Monaco win and to one Mr Hart, who was deprived of his first and only win ( also tolemans) . Who knows would that win have been enough to keep Senna at Toleman instead of going off to lotus , possibly not , as at the time Lotus was a big deal to Brazilians....

daigo

MJSpeed
+1000 on your comment. Senna was clearly a marvel.
I doubt that we can argue that Lewis has the talent to be in F1, however he is the most "manufatured" driver in F1's history. No expense spared throughout his career. This doesn't mean just equipment, but all the training, coaching and phsyc help money could buy. And I also agree with the opening comment that he has yet to do anything that's impressive. MS on many occassions showed us his mastery in the pouring rain slicing through the grid. FA, love him or hate him has done the same. Remember that pass on MS on the OUTSIDE of the R130 in Japan, that was impressive.

MJSpeed

Small tid bit of F1 history...

Senna signed a 2-year deal with Toleman and honored it for the first year despite receiving offers from other more competitive teams...the reason, the Toleman team was the first to offer him a test and contract for an F1 ride.

At the end of the first year Toleman team principle told Senna that if he chose to leave he can do so at anytime and that he was being released from his contract...the reason as told by Ayrton himself, the team principle told him that the team was holding him (Ayrton) back and that if another team (more competitive, which meant almost all the other teams) wanted him he could go...over a hand shake!

Senna chose Lotus because of the Honda engines...not because of Lotus.