Harnesses or don't use harnesses if no roll bar
#17
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What can I say...safety equipment is expensive!
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Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
#20
Drifting
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Interesting timing of this post. Not trying to hijack, but I'm at the same decision point. I just bought Recaro SRD seats with guide holes for harnesses, a BK harness bar (no roll bar), and I'm buying 6pt harnesses (which I'm going to pay someone that knows what they are doing to install). So, what's the consensus of the debate (for DEing) of using these components with no roll bar in a 964 coupe? Is there really a serious concern that, compared to a 3pt oem belt setup, I am going to be more likely to have my head/neck snapped if the roof caves in? Wouldn't the same likely happen if using factory 3pts? And of course, if I do put in a roll bar, now the debate comes up about driving on the street with no helmet (car is dual purpose) and bashing your brains out against the roll bar (although it seems that would be difficult with a roll bar behind you).
#21
Mr. Excitement
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What are the chances that you will be in a roof crushing wreck? Real low. What are the chances that you will be in any kind of wreck? Rounded out I see about one a weekend at the track . The roll bar itself will ONLY help you in a "b" pillar area roof crushing wreck. It will not help you in side impacts, rear impacts, front impacts, off angle impacts, T bones or other non roof crushing wrecks. Roll bars are overrated in modern coups. Drop top? Don't leave home without one.
A roll bar by itself does not even help when you flip and cave in the front windshield/ roof line in the "A" pillar area which is the most common roof intrusion. On the other hand the seat and harnesses will help you in ALL of the above.
The more held in place the more likely you are to survive a hard hit. You don't "duck down" when the roof crushes in, you are slammed into the roof with the same blindingly violent force that is being used to crush the roof. Use a roll bar if the downsides don't negate the up sides. Please don't forgo the greatly increased safety of a race type seat and 6 point just because you can't or don't want to install a roll bar.
Back to my popcorn.
A roll bar by itself does not even help when you flip and cave in the front windshield/ roof line in the "A" pillar area which is the most common roof intrusion. On the other hand the seat and harnesses will help you in ALL of the above.
The more held in place the more likely you are to survive a hard hit. You don't "duck down" when the roof crushes in, you are slammed into the roof with the same blindingly violent force that is being used to crush the roof. Use a roll bar if the downsides don't negate the up sides. Please don't forgo the greatly increased safety of a race type seat and 6 point just because you can't or don't want to install a roll bar.
Back to my popcorn.
#22
TR6 I AM With you..i think i am going to stick with the bk harness bar (very sturdy to meet DOT mounted to floor and side pillars unlike some truss bars..) and get a set of racing seats...i am not convinced though that the gt3 seats are as good and supportive as they are good looking and expensive...one nice fella recommended sparco s2000? i may look into the recaros srd's? i think i will go that route and save the adaptic sport seats for the resale also save $ and wait on the rollbar...if i go any further probably will be safer getting a dedicated track car with cage etc.....
what a great site....getting addicted...
mk
what a great site....getting addicted...
mk
#23
Pro
Thread Starter
For what it is worth. Just got off the phone with the major racing shop in the area. They do all sorts of fabrication for Porsche racing cars. The statement from this group was as follows: The newer coupes will stand up to a roll over accident. They are designed to ensure the roof doesn't collapse. The roll bar's purpose is primarily to prevent catastrophic events. An example given was if another car on the track were to plow into your roof after you were lying on your side. No doubt it is better to have the roll bar. However, there does seem to be a variety of input that indicates the newer cars are pretty darn strong.
#24
The Penguin King
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#25
For what it is worth. Just got off the phone with the major racing shop in the area. They do all sorts of fabrication for Porsche racing cars. The statement from this group was as follows: The newer coupes will stand up to a roll over accident. They are designed to ensure the roof doesn't collapse. The roll bar's purpose is primarily to prevent catastrophic events. An example given was if another car on the track were to plow into your roof after you were lying on your side. No doubt it is better to have the roll bar. However, there does seem to be a variety of input that indicates the newer cars are pretty darn strong.
Safety systems are designed to work as a total SYSTEM to protect your body. Massive G-force decelleration on your body is what hurts you... you need to manage that.
Factory 3-Point/airbag systems are developed by the smartest engineers in the world and crash tested to work.
Racing safety systems are developed by engineers and tested every Sunday to work.
"Mix and Match" stuff is a potential death sentence.
While Larry's recommendation might seem a bit over the top, think it through.... every piece is there to cover a weakness presented by one of the other pieces...
One example....
5-point racing harnesses may seem safe because they hold you tighter that 3-points... but...
In a side impact, without a full containment racing seat, your body will go sideways at high speed and the only thing stopping it will be the shoulder harness against your neck... basically this is equivalent to being hung.
In a frontal impact, your body is held stable but your head is not... without a head restraint device, the result can be a fatal basal skull fracture.
With a 3-point belt, neither of these would happen... something else bad may happen, but not these.
I'm not trying to scare you, but you have to think about the physics here and the potential results.
Current race car safety systems have evolved to address as many of thse issues as possible...
If you are going to modify your car for safety, you must install a complete racing system. Anything in between is in my opinion more dangerous.
#27
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Rather than get a headache thinking about all of this, I took the easy way out....buy a factory designed/prepared race car.....and hope you never have to test it.
#30
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