Harnesses or don't use harnesses if no roll bar
#1
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Harnesses or don't use harnesses if no roll bar
Quandry - I have harnesses, harness bar, GT3 seats but no roll bar. I also have the R3 head/neck restraint that I can use with the std. 3 pt. street belt. Given all the talk and PCA recommendations about using a roll bar if you use harnesses because the harness keeps you upright, is it better not to wear the harness if there is no roll bar? I have 997S.
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Hang onto your popcorn Charlie.
Anything, and I mean ANYTHING less than a full rollcage w/door bars, drivers suit, fire suppression system, fuel cell, left & right nets, full containment seat, 7 point belts and H&N device is skimping on safety as we know it today. Will you ever need any of that equipment; who knows? If you do, I could use some help today picking the lottery numbers.
It is all a matter of percentage of risk, and how much of a tolerance you have for it. Is there a chance that you will crash at a DE and go end over end? It just happened at MSR. I wouldn't want to have been in that car with 3 point belts. What is the chance that you could crash and smash the roof down on a new car (read a very strong car)? Probably a lot less. What is the chance that you will catch on fire? Quite slim?
There is a risk of all of that happening at a DE, even at "moderate" speeds. Yes the percentage is way down as compared to racing, but it is still there, and it could still happen to you. Rationalizing about it does not make it go away, it just make you feel better about ignoring what could happen. We all make those decisions, and sometimes we have to live (or not) with the consequences. Have a nice day.
Anything, and I mean ANYTHING less than a full rollcage w/door bars, drivers suit, fire suppression system, fuel cell, left & right nets, full containment seat, 7 point belts and H&N device is skimping on safety as we know it today. Will you ever need any of that equipment; who knows? If you do, I could use some help today picking the lottery numbers.
It is all a matter of percentage of risk, and how much of a tolerance you have for it. Is there a chance that you will crash at a DE and go end over end? It just happened at MSR. I wouldn't want to have been in that car with 3 point belts. What is the chance that you could crash and smash the roof down on a new car (read a very strong car)? Probably a lot less. What is the chance that you will catch on fire? Quite slim?
There is a risk of all of that happening at a DE, even at "moderate" speeds. Yes the percentage is way down as compared to racing, but it is still there, and it could still happen to you. Rationalizing about it does not make it go away, it just make you feel better about ignoring what could happen. We all make those decisions, and sometimes we have to live (or not) with the consequences. Have a nice day.
__________________
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
#7
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Yup, I am not a big fan of using harnesses with OEM seats, roll bar or not.
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#8
so you guys think that oem street belts are better than a harness bar and 6 pt harness using stock seats...they seem to hold me inplace 80% of what race seats would do...
i have 997S with adaptic seats and BK harness bar with 6 pt harness pretty sturdy bar, not the light mest like harness but a thick harness bar bolted to floor and sides...
i am on the fence about getting the race seats and rollbar (If i was not married would have them already ) any advice would be appreciated
mk
i have 997S with adaptic seats and BK harness bar with 6 pt harness pretty sturdy bar, not the light mest like harness but a thick harness bar bolted to floor and sides...
i am on the fence about getting the race seats and rollbar (If i was not married would have them already ) any advice would be appreciated
mk
#9
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Hang onto your popcorn Charlie.
Anything, and I mean ANYTHING less than a full rollcage w/door bars, drivers suit, fire suppression system, fuel cell, left & right nets, full containment seat, 7 point belts and H&N device is skimping on safety as we know it today. Will you ever need any of that equipment; who knows? If you do, I could use some help today picking the lottery numbers.
It is all a matter of percentage of risk, and how much of a tolerance you have for it. Is there a chance that you will crash at a DE and go end over end? It just happened at MSR. I wouldn't want to have been in that car with 3 point belts. What is the chance that you could crash and smash the roof down on a new car (read a very strong car)? Probably a lot less. What is the chance that you will catch on fire? Quite slim?
There is a risk of all of that happening at a DE, even at "moderate" speeds. Yes the percentage is way down as compared to racing, but it is still there, and it could still happen to you. Rationalizing about it does not make it go away, it just make you feel better about ignoring what could happen. We all make those decisions, and sometimes we have to live (or not) with the consequences. Have a nice day.
Anything, and I mean ANYTHING less than a full rollcage w/door bars, drivers suit, fire suppression system, fuel cell, left & right nets, full containment seat, 7 point belts and H&N device is skimping on safety as we know it today. Will you ever need any of that equipment; who knows? If you do, I could use some help today picking the lottery numbers.
It is all a matter of percentage of risk, and how much of a tolerance you have for it. Is there a chance that you will crash at a DE and go end over end? It just happened at MSR. I wouldn't want to have been in that car with 3 point belts. What is the chance that you could crash and smash the roof down on a new car (read a very strong car)? Probably a lot less. What is the chance that you will catch on fire? Quite slim?
There is a risk of all of that happening at a DE, even at "moderate" speeds. Yes the percentage is way down as compared to racing, but it is still there, and it could still happen to you. Rationalizing about it does not make it go away, it just make you feel better about ignoring what could happen. We all make those decisions, and sometimes we have to live (or not) with the consequences. Have a nice day.
#10
Rennlist Member
so you guys think that oem street belts are better than a harness bar and 6 pt harness using stock seats...they seem to hold me inplace 80% of what race seats would do...
i have 997S with adaptic seats and BK harness bar with 6 pt harness pretty sturdy bar, not the light mest like harness but a thick harness bar bolted to floor and sides...
i am on the fence about getting the race seats and rollbar (If i was not married would have them already ) any advice would be appreciated
mk
i have 997S with adaptic seats and BK harness bar with 6 pt harness pretty sturdy bar, not the light mest like harness but a thick harness bar bolted to floor and sides...
i am on the fence about getting the race seats and rollbar (If i was not married would have them already ) any advice would be appreciated
mk
Last edited by Gary R.; 02-29-2008 at 10:49 AM.
#11
Pro
Thread Starter
FYI, as mentioned, I do have race seats (GT3 clubsport seats) that have harness guides.
Larry - great post. Agree with everything you said. I would be very interested in any experience/data on the structural integrity of 997s in a roll over. I am going to assume very good given the safety requirements of production cars but I don't know to what level they crash test these cars. I have heard some people say that in a roll over the roof did not even touch the roll bar, others have said there were dents of a couple inches.
Larry - great post. Agree with everything you said. I would be very interested in any experience/data on the structural integrity of 997s in a roll over. I am going to assume very good given the safety requirements of production cars but I don't know to what level they crash test these cars. I have heard some people say that in a roll over the roof did not even touch the roll bar, others have said there were dents of a couple inches.
#14
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It depends on how much she cares about you. It is safety equipment after all. $4K worth of R3s for me and my 3 boys was easy. New Hoosiers are a little tougher.
#15
King of Cool
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I had Harnesses but waited to install them until I got the roll bar. I now have a cage.
I agree with Larry's post although I think i.e. F1 guys use "only" 6-point harnesses and I doubt they have budget problems that prevents them to buy 7-points instead...
Everything is a compromise.
I agree with Larry's post although I think i.e. F1 guys use "only" 6-point harnesses and I doubt they have budget problems that prevents them to buy 7-points instead...
Everything is a compromise.