ECS

Quandry - I have harnesses, harness bar, GT3 seats but no roll bar. I also have the R3 head/neck restraint that I can use with the std. 3 pt. street belt. Given all the talk and PCA recommendations about using a roll bar if you use harnesses because the harness keeps you upright, is it better not to wear the harness if there is no roll bar? I have 997S.

Crazy Canuck

Get a bar. Tequipement bar fits.

ECS

Agree - having a bar is the best. And, am going that route but won't have one in by my next event.

DrJupeman

Larry Herman

Hang onto your popcorn Charlie.

Anything, and I mean ANYTHING less than a full rollcage w/door bars, drivers suit, fire suppression system, fuel cell, left & right nets, full containment seat, 7 point belts and H&N device is skimping on safety as we know it today. Will you ever need any of that equipment; who knows? If you do, I could use some help today picking the lottery numbers.

It is all a matter of percentage of risk, and how much of a tolerance you have for it. Is there a chance that you will crash at a DE and go end over end? It just happened at MSR. I wouldn't want to have been in that car with 3 point belts. What is the chance that you could crash and smash the roof down on a new car (read a very strong car)? Probably a lot less. What is the chance that you will catch on fire? Quite slim?

There is a risk of all of that happening at a DE, even at "moderate" speeds. Yes the percentage is way down as compared to racing, but it is still there, and it could still happen to you. Rationalizing about it does not make it go away, it just make you feel better about ignoring what could happen. We all make those decisions, and sometimes we have to live (or not) with the consequences. Have a nice day.

AudiOn19s

Safety compromises aside, you're better off using the 3-points with fixed seats and no rollbar.

Veloce Raptor

Yup, I am not a big fan of using harnesses with OEM seats, roll bar or not.

mkk62

so you guys think that oem street belts are better than a harness bar and 6 pt harness using stock seats...they seem to hold me inplace 80% of what race seats would do...
i have 997S with adaptic seats and BK harness bar with 6 pt harness pretty sturdy bar, not the light mest like harness but a thick harness bar bolted to floor and sides...

i am on the fence about getting the race seats and rollbar (If i was not married would have them already ) any advice would be appreciated

mk

Circuit Motorsports

Great Post.

Gary R.

You are using a 6 point harness with a stock 997S Adaptive Sport seat? That in itself sounds dangerous to me. What stops the shoulder harnesses from moving (as there are no holes for them) and neither is there a hole for the crotch harness, so I assume that is just going over the front of the seat? NG and it would be rejected at our Tech Inspection's here. I would (and did in my 997S) use the stock seat belts and a CG-Lock over what you are describing..

ECS

FYI, as mentioned, I do have race seats (GT3 clubsport seats) that have harness guides.

Larry - great post. Agree with everything you said. I would be very interested in any experience/data on the structural integrity of 997s in a roll over. I am going to assume very good given the safety requirements of production cars but I don't know to what level they crash test these cars. I have heard some people say that in a roll over the roof did not even touch the roll bar, others have said there were dents of a couple inches.

Gary R.

Re-read, that wasn't directed at you..

mkk62

thanks Gary

i think this site has convinced me to get the rollbar and gt3 race seats..thanks!

now to convince the wife........
mk

Larry Herman

It depends on how much she cares about you. It is safety equipment after all. $4K worth of R3s for me and my 3 boys was easy. New Hoosiers are a little tougher.

Flying Finn

I had Harnesses but waited to install them until I got the roll bar. I now have a cage.

I agree with Larry's post although I think i.e. F1 guys use "only" 6-point harnesses and I doubt they have budget problems that prevents them to buy 7-points instead...

Everything is a compromise.