Help with data acquisition please
12-03-2007, 02:46 PM
#61
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Scott,
I understood that the Traqmate accelerometers are showing the acceleration point and the G's. Why would one want to add a throttle position sensor ? In order to eliminate some information that could mislead the interpretation of G's ? ( different Tyre wear and temperature , Track condition, etc...)
I understood that the Traqmate accelerometers are showing the acceleration point and the G's. Why would one want to add a throttle position sensor ? In order to eliminate some information that could mislead the interpretation of G's ? ( different Tyre wear and temperature , Track condition, etc...)
12-03-2007, 02:48 PM
#62
Nordschleife Master
Why would one want to add a throttle position sensor ?
Seriously, throttle position is one of the basic sensors that can identify areas of driver improvement.
12-03-2007, 03:24 PM
#64
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No. The Traqmate does fine for lateral g's and g's during braking, but the data for acceleration g's depends on gearing and other factors and doesn't really give the information you want. The throttle position sensor tells you when you are getting on the throttle, how hard and when you get to WOT and when you chicken out and lift. The g's don't give you all that. Even looking at rpm as a surrogate still doen't really give the information the TPS does.
12-04-2007, 01:42 AM
#66
Its been quite a while since I've been on Rennlist, so g'day everyone! I better go ask JD is he'll have me back as a sponsor PDQ!!
There are some trade offs to be made when choosing a logger package.
At one end of the spectrum lies the MoTeC ADL product line, with their i2 Pro analytics. This is undoubtedly the ultimate package, given that its pitched at pro teams and has an almost unlimited analytics feature set. If you can't do it with i2 Pro, you probably don't want to do it. Sensors are expensive, but you are paying for the best and most reliable. There's a new i2 Pro coming that has some impressive video features, including the ability to create video with overlaid data.
In the same class, and at the same general price point, lies Pi Research, Stack and the upper end of the Aim range. Once again, the analytics are significantly different from each of these vendors, so if you are buying in this range it really makes sense to do some solid research and talk to someone who has first hand experience with the product lines. Talking to people who are 'invested' in a particular product means YOU have to do the comparative analysis, and that's a lot of work.
In the GPS logger range, there are some quite capable products out there that will get you a nice multi-sensor setup in the >$1000 <$2000 range. The Racepak G2X, the Race Technology DL series, Traqmate, etc are in this class. Some, including RaceTechnology & Traqmate, provide generic analog and digital inputs that will accept most sensor types. Most also provide a simple process to add math channels that will scale these inputs nicely. Throttle position data that reads 0 -100% is much more useful that data that reads 0.243V - 3.454V [which happens to be the range of the Bosch Motronic sensors in many Porsche models]. Traqmate does not have provision for math channels, so sensor scaling and gear calculation is not possible. Racepak's G2x sensor system appears to be expensive, but general analog and digital sensors run around $100, plus you need a initial Vnet cable at around $100 to get started. The very cool thing is that their VNet sensors can be calibrated using your PC, so scaling is a snap! Its impressive! Having used all three of these analytics packages extensively, the G2X package is definitely the more flexible and capable even though it can be a bit complicated. Adding Math channels is a cinch.
In the sub-$500 range, its really worth looking at MaxQData. Its great value, and although they don't do as much promotion their users are very happy campers. The analytics are not quite as powerful as some, but they are very easy to use.
Video integration is almost a separate issue. Many vendors are offering the ability to sync up video in their analytics application, and to display the frame that matches the data. Some have a 'play' capability, some are frame-by-frame. All have the ability to export data to TrackVision to produce video with overlaid data dashboard. As time goes on, we will see more cases where integration with video production apps will become even more complete.
This is one of those areas where there is a very wide range of solutions to choose from, and the good news is that there are decent systems available across a wide range of price points. My personal criterion for decisions like this is the tire constant. If a systems like this can really make a difference to your development as a driver, AND give you the ability to compare performance with other drivers, AND you can get started for less than a set of new Hoosiers, then the decision is an easy one to make :-)
There are some trade offs to be made when choosing a logger package.
At one end of the spectrum lies the MoTeC ADL product line, with their i2 Pro analytics. This is undoubtedly the ultimate package, given that its pitched at pro teams and has an almost unlimited analytics feature set. If you can't do it with i2 Pro, you probably don't want to do it. Sensors are expensive, but you are paying for the best and most reliable. There's a new i2 Pro coming that has some impressive video features, including the ability to create video with overlaid data.
In the same class, and at the same general price point, lies Pi Research, Stack and the upper end of the Aim range. Once again, the analytics are significantly different from each of these vendors, so if you are buying in this range it really makes sense to do some solid research and talk to someone who has first hand experience with the product lines. Talking to people who are 'invested' in a particular product means YOU have to do the comparative analysis, and that's a lot of work.
In the GPS logger range, there are some quite capable products out there that will get you a nice multi-sensor setup in the >$1000 <$2000 range. The Racepak G2X, the Race Technology DL series, Traqmate, etc are in this class. Some, including RaceTechnology & Traqmate, provide generic analog and digital inputs that will accept most sensor types. Most also provide a simple process to add math channels that will scale these inputs nicely. Throttle position data that reads 0 -100% is much more useful that data that reads 0.243V - 3.454V [which happens to be the range of the Bosch Motronic sensors in many Porsche models]. Traqmate does not have provision for math channels, so sensor scaling and gear calculation is not possible. Racepak's G2x sensor system appears to be expensive, but general analog and digital sensors run around $100, plus you need a initial Vnet cable at around $100 to get started. The very cool thing is that their VNet sensors can be calibrated using your PC, so scaling is a snap! Its impressive! Having used all three of these analytics packages extensively, the G2X package is definitely the more flexible and capable even though it can be a bit complicated. Adding Math channels is a cinch.
In the sub-$500 range, its really worth looking at MaxQData. Its great value, and although they don't do as much promotion their users are very happy campers. The analytics are not quite as powerful as some, but they are very easy to use.
Video integration is almost a separate issue. Many vendors are offering the ability to sync up video in their analytics application, and to display the frame that matches the data. Some have a 'play' capability, some are frame-by-frame. All have the ability to export data to TrackVision to produce video with overlaid data dashboard. As time goes on, we will see more cases where integration with video production apps will become even more complete.
This is one of those areas where there is a very wide range of solutions to choose from, and the good news is that there are decent systems available across a wide range of price points. My personal criterion for decisions like this is the tire constant. If a systems like this can really make a difference to your development as a driver, AND give you the ability to compare performance with other drivers, AND you can get started for less than a set of new Hoosiers, then the decision is an easy one to make :-)
Last edited by APKhaos; 12-04-2007 at 10:59 AM.
12-04-2007, 07:28 AM
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boqueron
Your car has a throttle position sensor (e-gas) and RPM sensor - just tap into them at the ECU - no need to buy sensors for those. There are other sensor that are also usable that are already built in - just depends what data is useful to you. This is my useful list, that one day I will have all set up on my traqmate.
rpm - done
brake (on/off) - done
wheel speed (use rpm & wheelspeed to calculate gear)
brake pressure
throttle position
steering angle
I think on the Mk2 GT3 of my list, the only sensors you would need to install are brake pressure and steering angle - and by then you are either pretty advanced user or very confused.
I get value off the rpm and brake on off - and the built in accelerometers in the traqmate - enough for the moment anyway.
This thread may help give you some ideas.
http://www.renntech.org/forums/index...793&hl=ecu+pin
Your car has a throttle position sensor (e-gas) and RPM sensor - just tap into them at the ECU - no need to buy sensors for those. There are other sensor that are also usable that are already built in - just depends what data is useful to you. This is my useful list, that one day I will have all set up on my traqmate.
rpm - done
brake (on/off) - done
wheel speed (use rpm & wheelspeed to calculate gear)
brake pressure
throttle position
steering angle
I think on the Mk2 GT3 of my list, the only sensors you would need to install are brake pressure and steering angle - and by then you are either pretty advanced user or very confused.
I get value off the rpm and brake on off - and the built in accelerometers in the traqmate - enough for the moment anyway.
This thread may help give you some ideas.
http://www.renntech.org/forums/index...793&hl=ecu+pin
12-04-2007, 08:53 AM
#69
Rennlist Member
Its been quite a while since I've been on Rennlist, so g'day everyone! I better go ask JD is he'll have me back as a sponsor PDQ!!
There are some trade offs to be made when choosing a logger package.
At one end of the spectrum lies the MoTeC ADL product line, with their i2 Pro analytics. This is undoubtedly the ultimate package, given that its pitched at pro teams and has an almost unlimited analytics feature set. If you can't do it with i2 Pro, you probably don't want to do it. Sensors are expensive, but you are paying for the best and most reliable. There's a new i2 Pro coming that has some impressive video features, including the ability to create video with overlaid data.
In the same class, and at the same general price point, lies Pi Research, Stack and the upper end of the Aim range. Once again, the analytics are significantly different from each of these vendors, so if you are buying in this range it really makes sense to do some solid research and talk to someone who has first hand experience with the product lines. Talking to people who are 'invested' in a particular product means YOU have to do the comparative analysis, and that's a lot of work.
In the GPS logger range, there are some quite capable products out there that will get you a nice multi-sensor setup in the >$1000 <$2000 range. The Racepak G2X, the Race Technology DL series, Traqmate, etc are in this class. Some, including RaceTechnology & Traqmate, provide generic analog and digital inputs that will accept most sensor types. Most also provide a simple process to add match channels that will scale these inputs nicely. Throttle position data that reads 0 -100% is much more useful that data that reads 0.243V - 3.454V [which happens to be the range of the Bosch Motronic sensors in many Porsche models]. Traqmate does not have provision for math channels, so sensor scaling and gear calculation is not possible. Racepak's G2x sensor system appears to be expensive, but general analog and digital sensors run around $100, plus you need a initial Vnet cable at around $100 to get started. The very cool thing is that their VNet sensors can be calibrated using your PC, so scaling is a snap! Its impressive! Having used all three of these analytics packages extensively, the G2X package is definitely the more flexible and capable even though it can be a bit complicated. Adding Math channels is a cinch.
In the sub-$500 range, its really worth looking at MaxQData. Its great value, and although they don't do as much promotion their users are very happy campers. The analytics are not quite as powerful as some, but they are very easy to use.
Video integration is almost a separate issue. Many vendors are offering the ability to sync up video in their analytics application, and to display the frame that matches the data. Some have a 'play' capability, some are frame-by-frame. All have the ability to export data to TrackVision to produce video with overlaid data dashboard. As time goes on, we will see more cases where integration with video production apps will become even more complete.
This is one of those areas where there is a very wide range of solutions to choose from, and the good news is that there are decent systems available across a wide range of price points. My personal criterion for decisions like this is the tire constant. If a systems like this can really make a difference to your development as a driver, AND give you the ability to compare performance with other drivers, ADN you can get started for less than a set of new Hoosiers, then the decision is an easy one to make :-)
There are some trade offs to be made when choosing a logger package.
At one end of the spectrum lies the MoTeC ADL product line, with their i2 Pro analytics. This is undoubtedly the ultimate package, given that its pitched at pro teams and has an almost unlimited analytics feature set. If you can't do it with i2 Pro, you probably don't want to do it. Sensors are expensive, but you are paying for the best and most reliable. There's a new i2 Pro coming that has some impressive video features, including the ability to create video with overlaid data.
In the same class, and at the same general price point, lies Pi Research, Stack and the upper end of the Aim range. Once again, the analytics are significantly different from each of these vendors, so if you are buying in this range it really makes sense to do some solid research and talk to someone who has first hand experience with the product lines. Talking to people who are 'invested' in a particular product means YOU have to do the comparative analysis, and that's a lot of work.
In the GPS logger range, there are some quite capable products out there that will get you a nice multi-sensor setup in the >$1000 <$2000 range. The Racepak G2X, the Race Technology DL series, Traqmate, etc are in this class. Some, including RaceTechnology & Traqmate, provide generic analog and digital inputs that will accept most sensor types. Most also provide a simple process to add match channels that will scale these inputs nicely. Throttle position data that reads 0 -100% is much more useful that data that reads 0.243V - 3.454V [which happens to be the range of the Bosch Motronic sensors in many Porsche models]. Traqmate does not have provision for math channels, so sensor scaling and gear calculation is not possible. Racepak's G2x sensor system appears to be expensive, but general analog and digital sensors run around $100, plus you need a initial Vnet cable at around $100 to get started. The very cool thing is that their VNet sensors can be calibrated using your PC, so scaling is a snap! Its impressive! Having used all three of these analytics packages extensively, the G2X package is definitely the more flexible and capable even though it can be a bit complicated. Adding Math channels is a cinch.
In the sub-$500 range, its really worth looking at MaxQData. Its great value, and although they don't do as much promotion their users are very happy campers. The analytics are not quite as powerful as some, but they are very easy to use.
Video integration is almost a separate issue. Many vendors are offering the ability to sync up video in their analytics application, and to display the frame that matches the data. Some have a 'play' capability, some are frame-by-frame. All have the ability to export data to TrackVision to produce video with overlaid data dashboard. As time goes on, we will see more cases where integration with video production apps will become even more complete.
This is one of those areas where there is a very wide range of solutions to choose from, and the good news is that there are decent systems available across a wide range of price points. My personal criterion for decisions like this is the tire constant. If a systems like this can really make a difference to your development as a driver, AND give you the ability to compare performance with other drivers, ADN you can get started for less than a set of new Hoosiers, then the decision is an easy one to make :-)
I still have a MaxQdata system for sale also...
12-04-2007, 12:39 PM
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Its been quite a while since I've been on Rennlist, so g'day everyone! I better go ask JD is he'll have me back as a sponsor PDQ!!
There are some trade offs to be made when choosing a logger package.
At one end of the spectrum lies the MoTeC ADL product line, with their i2 Pro analytics. This is undoubtedly the ultimate package, given that its pitched at pro teams and has an almost unlimited analytics feature set. If you can't do it with i2 Pro, you probably don't want to do it. Sensors are expensive, but you are paying for the best and most reliable. There's a new i2 Pro coming that has some impressive video features, including the ability to create video with overlaid data.
In the same class, and at the same general price point, lies Pi Research, Stack and the upper end of the Aim range. Once again, the analytics are significantly different from each of these vendors, so if you are buying in this range it really makes sense to do some solid research and talk to someone who has first hand experience with the product lines. Talking to people who are 'invested' in a particular product means YOU have to do the comparative analysis, and that's a lot of work.
In the GPS logger range, there are some quite capable products out there that will get you a nice multi-sensor setup in the >$1000 <$2000 range. The Racepak G2X, the Race Technology DL series, Traqmate, etc are in this class. Some, including RaceTechnology & Traqmate, provide generic analog and digital inputs that will accept most sensor types. Most also provide a simple process to add math channels that will scale these inputs nicely. Throttle position data that reads 0 -100% is much more useful that data that reads 0.243V - 3.454V [which happens to be the range of the Bosch Motronic sensors in many Porsche models]. Traqmate does not have provision for math channels, so sensor scaling and gear calculation is not possible. Racepak's G2x sensor system appears to be expensive, but general analog and digital sensors run around $100, plus you need a initial Vnet cable at around $100 to get started. The very cool thing is that their VNet sensors can be calibrated using your PC, so scaling is a snap! Its impressive! Having used all three of these analytics packages extensively, the G2X package is definitely the more flexible and capable even though it can be a bit complicated. Adding Math channels is a cinch.
In the sub-$500 range, its really worth looking at MaxQData. Its great value, and although they don't do as much promotion their users are very happy campers. The analytics are not quite as powerful as some, but they are very easy to use.
Video integration is almost a separate issue. Many vendors are offering the ability to sync up video in their analytics application, and to display the frame that matches the data. Some have a 'play' capability, some are frame-by-frame. All have the ability to export data to TrackVision to produce video with overlaid data dashboard. As time goes on, we will see more cases where integration with video production apps will become even more complete.
This is one of those areas where there is a very wide range of solutions to choose from, and the good news is that there are decent systems available across a wide range of price points. My personal criterion for decisions like this is the tire constant. If a systems like this can really make a difference to your development as a driver, AND give you the ability to compare performance with other drivers, AND you can get started for less than a set of new Hoosiers, then the decision is an easy one to make :-)
There are some trade offs to be made when choosing a logger package.
At one end of the spectrum lies the MoTeC ADL product line, with their i2 Pro analytics. This is undoubtedly the ultimate package, given that its pitched at pro teams and has an almost unlimited analytics feature set. If you can't do it with i2 Pro, you probably don't want to do it. Sensors are expensive, but you are paying for the best and most reliable. There's a new i2 Pro coming that has some impressive video features, including the ability to create video with overlaid data.
In the same class, and at the same general price point, lies Pi Research, Stack and the upper end of the Aim range. Once again, the analytics are significantly different from each of these vendors, so if you are buying in this range it really makes sense to do some solid research and talk to someone who has first hand experience with the product lines. Talking to people who are 'invested' in a particular product means YOU have to do the comparative analysis, and that's a lot of work.
In the GPS logger range, there are some quite capable products out there that will get you a nice multi-sensor setup in the >$1000 <$2000 range. The Racepak G2X, the Race Technology DL series, Traqmate, etc are in this class. Some, including RaceTechnology & Traqmate, provide generic analog and digital inputs that will accept most sensor types. Most also provide a simple process to add math channels that will scale these inputs nicely. Throttle position data that reads 0 -100% is much more useful that data that reads 0.243V - 3.454V [which happens to be the range of the Bosch Motronic sensors in many Porsche models]. Traqmate does not have provision for math channels, so sensor scaling and gear calculation is not possible. Racepak's G2x sensor system appears to be expensive, but general analog and digital sensors run around $100, plus you need a initial Vnet cable at around $100 to get started. The very cool thing is that their VNet sensors can be calibrated using your PC, so scaling is a snap! Its impressive! Having used all three of these analytics packages extensively, the G2X package is definitely the more flexible and capable even though it can be a bit complicated. Adding Math channels is a cinch.
In the sub-$500 range, its really worth looking at MaxQData. Its great value, and although they don't do as much promotion their users are very happy campers. The analytics are not quite as powerful as some, but they are very easy to use.
Video integration is almost a separate issue. Many vendors are offering the ability to sync up video in their analytics application, and to display the frame that matches the data. Some have a 'play' capability, some are frame-by-frame. All have the ability to export data to TrackVision to produce video with overlaid data dashboard. As time goes on, we will see more cases where integration with video production apps will become even more complete.
This is one of those areas where there is a very wide range of solutions to choose from, and the good news is that there are decent systems available across a wide range of price points. My personal criterion for decisions like this is the tire constant. If a systems like this can really make a difference to your development as a driver, AND give you the ability to compare performance with other drivers, AND you can get started for less than a set of new Hoosiers, then the decision is an easy one to make :-)
Excellent post!
I just wanted to make a clarification though
Traqmate does not have provision for math channels, so sensor scaling and gear calculation is not possible.
They are also working on recording and displaying gear.
-Scott
12-04-2007, 12:42 PM
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12-04-2007, 12:53 PM
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I have read in the Traqmate manual ( page 26) that the sampling rate can be set in 10, 20 or 40 Hz mode. (They recommend 20 hz.) Why wouldn't recommend - 40 hz. Is there any tradeoff involved when setting this 40 hz sampling rate ? Would this 40Hz sampling mode increase the accuracy ?
-Scott
12-04-2007, 02:00 PM
#74
Traqmate does not have provisions for adding custom math channels, but it does do the sensor scaling for you.
Also in the sub $500 range is the G-Tech Pro RR at $300.
12-04-2007, 02:55 PM
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boqueron
Your car has a throttle position sensor (e-gas) and RPM sensor - just tap into them at the ECU - no need to buy sensors for those. There are other sensor that are also usable that are already built in - just depends what data is useful to you. This is my useful list, that one day I will have all set up on my traqmate.
rpm - done
brake (on/off) - done
wheel speed (use rpm & wheelspeed to calculate gear)
brake pressure
throttle position
steering angle
I think on the Mk2 GT3 of my list, the only sensors you would need to install are brake pressure and steering angle - and by then you are either pretty advanced user or very confused.
I get value off the rpm and brake on off - and the built in accelerometers in the traqmate - enough for the moment anyway.
This thread may help give you some ideas.
http://www.renntech.org/forums/index...793&hl=ecu+pin
Your car has a throttle position sensor (e-gas) and RPM sensor - just tap into them at the ECU - no need to buy sensors for those. There are other sensor that are also usable that are already built in - just depends what data is useful to you. This is my useful list, that one day I will have all set up on my traqmate.
rpm - done
brake (on/off) - done
wheel speed (use rpm & wheelspeed to calculate gear)
brake pressure
throttle position
steering angle
I think on the Mk2 GT3 of my list, the only sensors you would need to install are brake pressure and steering angle - and by then you are either pretty advanced user or very confused.
I get value off the rpm and brake on off - and the built in accelerometers in the traqmate - enough for the moment anyway.
This thread may help give you some ideas.
http://www.renntech.org/forums/index...793&hl=ecu+pin
I saw there is a brake pressure signal at the ECU and ABS/PSM module
also, would it cause issue to tap that signal directly?If you don't want to install wheel speed sensor, you can also calculate gear using GPS speed.