richard glickel.

Hi Geoffrey,

I agree. And, even adding 50 lbs, so the car is 3100 lbs w/driver, that's still 200+ lbs less than the car weighed this past season for the 944 SuperCup series!

As you point out, for the car to be relatively competitive in GT4, it would need to shed quite a bit of weight. Adding 50 lbs is waaay easier. Then again, as someone else points out above, some consideration must go to who you want to race with. I'd be willing to try GT5 (or GT4) just to see how I like it.

Enjoy your weekend.

BBailey

Custom crank, custom intake, custom cam, lots of headwork, custom pistons and rods, drysump, electronic sequential injection plus all the little stuff

Lots of RPM's

richard glickel.

You will NEVER get 375 HP out of a 968 NA engine. In fact, even 275 is highly unlikely, and it doesn't matter how much $$ you're willing to expend on the internals.

BBailey

Care to make a wager on that? 375 bhp on an engine dyno, which is roughly 320 rwhp.

I've already talked to two engine bulders that have already built 325 rwhp 3.0L 968 engines, one using carburators. Might want to talk to Dave Finch, Jon Milledge, and a few others. It's already been done.

But yes, you're right, its an utter and total impossibility!

Geoffrey

Of course in GT5 you'll be running against the 2.0 and 2.2l lightweight 914s.

richard glickel.

Brian,

Don't know Dave, but I have spoken with Milledge.

I'd guess you can spend 25 - $30k and still end up on the short end by 65 - 80 HP. Now, I realize that you're from Texas, so money is no object.

Hey, I'm rooting for you. I would love to see how much HP you can reliably wring out of the 968's 3.0L, as your success might serve to encourage a similar effort by others (myself included). Please keep us posted (over at the 968 forum too) on your progress with the buid & good luck.

BBailey

Based on that comment, I'm guessing you didn't even read my post did you?

325 rear wheel horsepower engines are already being raced in SCCA's GT2 class which limits what you can do to the engine. And one of those two engines is carburated, so there's definitely room for improvement on at least one of them if you moved over to sequential injection.

You seriously think my goal of 375 bhp (which is 320 rwhp) will come up 65 to 80 hp short? You can't actually be serious. Think about what you are saying. It's already been done by multiple engine builders, but you think getting within 65 to 80 hp isn't possible.

I realize most 944/968 owners think Porsche did all they could to wring power out of the normally aspirated 4 cylinders, and they did within their guidelines (street car, emissions testing, warranty, etc), but to think a full bore racing engine with 4 valves per cylinder can't get to 100 bhp per liter (your estimate not mine) is very shortsighted.

Russ Murphy

There are NA production cars that produce 100hp/liter. I'm sure that building a racing motor to do the same shouldn't be too difficult even though it is a 15 year old design.

richard glickel.

Of course I've read your post. 320 RWHP is more like 355 at the flywheel (maybe I'm too conservative, but I figure 11% through the drivetrain rather than 15%). But, even that number is phenomenal IMHO. I would be ecstatic to acheive 100 RWHP per litre with a NA 968 3.0L.

Anyway, good luck and, if you don't mind, I really would like to follow your 968 race car build.

Ciao.

93 FireHawk 968

I'm shocked at the HP numbers being quoted on this thread. How reliable are the 968 motors when tweaked to that degree? Does anyone have long term experience they can share?

Chris Prack

Does anyone have one at all that has reached that 375hp number no matter how long it has lasted?

Russ Murphy

If you're shocked now, just wait until you read this thread: Are 944 Turbos at a Disadvantage in PCA Club Racing? It is essentially about how much hp current PCA GT cars really make.

richard glickel.

Russ,

No one's questioning the HP of cars in the GT classes, Joe's curious as to who has actually managed to build a 968 NA 3.0L engine to put out 375 HP?

Geoffrey

I can tell you as one of the people what helped define the new GT rules that a number of highly respected people within the PCA club, including John Millage worked very hard to come up with a solution to the existing GT classes which have been outdated and in need of improvements for some time. A lot of thought by many talented and more importantely experienced people spent 2 years working on a system that would allow GT cars to race more competitively. The rules also allow for modification of the HP/L for a given engine type if need be without rewriting the entire racing classification. I believe the 4v 4cyl 944/968 performance number came from John's work.

richard glickel.

Geoffrey,

For whatever it's worth, I think the competition committee did a great job with the new rules.

Like anything else in life, you can't ever please everyone, and there will likely be further changes ot the rules as the organization sees what works and what (possibly) doesn't work as envisioned.