Is Anyone Writing DE Insurance ???
#31
Well Gary's qouted rate/deductable/payout is absolultely a no-brainer. My issue is this:
Who establishes claimed value to be covered? Is an appraisal required? My car is probably only "worth" $60-63K in stock trim, but I've got $20K plus in receipts for upgrades/mods to the powertrain/suspension/brakes/safety equipment.
I'm all ears, since I plan to double the number of HPDE events this coming year.
That's the other "question". Is there a limit to the number of track days? I'm going to have to call these folks and get educated. My agent and I have an understanding. He'll cover the claim once, then they might well drop me or raise my overall premium by a significant amount.
Mike
Who establishes claimed value to be covered? Is an appraisal required? My car is probably only "worth" $60-63K in stock trim, but I've got $20K plus in receipts for upgrades/mods to the powertrain/suspension/brakes/safety equipment.
I'm all ears, since I plan to double the number of HPDE events this coming year.
That's the other "question". Is there a limit to the number of track days? I'm going to have to call these folks and get educated. My agent and I have an understanding. He'll cover the claim once, then they might well drop me or raise my overall premium by a significant amount.
Mike
#32
mike,
i follow the logic.
intoxicated guy is GROSSLY negligent.
and mr badluck is fine.
but, say X is in a slow car passing a turbo (the turbo may or may not have waived me by), X dove inside of turbo. turbo didn't see X, shuts the door, bang and kaboom..... well, yes, X is the moron and did many wrong acts. X is NOT grossly negligent imo. he's a moron and ***. if he has 1/2 of a brain, he MAY offer to pay for some of damage. but he's not obligated to it. this is MY OWN reading of the waivers. am i right? basically sort of someone purposely draft bumping me every turns and forcing me into a wall or corner, something reeally really obvious, like pointing a gun out the window at me wh ile on track, it's really hard to say he's grossly negligent (your intoxicated exp is obvious).
i am no lawyer and i dont know what is or is not gross negligent, but above is how i understood the waiver. anyone???
i follow the logic.
intoxicated guy is GROSSLY negligent.
and mr badluck is fine.
but, say X is in a slow car passing a turbo (the turbo may or may not have waived me by), X dove inside of turbo. turbo didn't see X, shuts the door, bang and kaboom..... well, yes, X is the moron and did many wrong acts. X is NOT grossly negligent imo. he's a moron and ***. if he has 1/2 of a brain, he MAY offer to pay for some of damage. but he's not obligated to it. this is MY OWN reading of the waivers. am i right? basically sort of someone purposely draft bumping me every turns and forcing me into a wall or corner, something reeally really obvious, like pointing a gun out the window at me wh ile on track, it's really hard to say he's grossly negligent (your intoxicated exp is obvious).
i am no lawyer and i dont know what is or is not gross negligent, but above is how i understood the waiver. anyone???
Good question. My thoughts here as a non-lawyer...pass by X driver without a point. Plus Turbo driver also never noticed X. For many clubs and events, a point to pass is this is a fundemental rule in order to create a safe driving environment as it simply mimics racing. Assuming this was the case in this event, it may indeed constitute gross negligance. That said, I have read that the burden to prove gross negliance is relatively high and additional facts surrounding the incident and participants will likely determine the type of negligance here. For instance, if the pre event drivers meeting stated that anyone passing without a point will be asked to leave immediately, the Turbo drivers case against X just improved. Or if X told others that I don't care whatever rules they said are in place and I don't have to get a point-by to pass, this is starting to resemble a willful or wanton disregard for the rules with a potential assumption of its consequences. Again, a lean toward gross negliance I'd think. If however a pass without a point is commonplace in this event and both Turbo and X have observed this happening routinely, with X taking his first (unsucessful!) try at it, perhaps things swing to ordinary negligance. If X and Turbo were following each other for many laps w/o any other traffic, both signed off or non-instructed, again a swing toward ordinary negliance in that Turbo should have seem X, despite the "against-the-rules" pass.
Others have said the following which I agree with...DE'ing is communal activity. Everybody has to abide by some simple rules and protocol in order to create as safe a situation as practical. It is absolutely not risk free and many involved are unaware that financial responsability for an on-track accident/incident i up to them if they endure a loss (property or personal)...unless gross negliance is involved. Who's at fault in an ordinary negliance incident is meaningless to recieving compensation for any loss.
Mike
#34
Well Gary's qouted rate/deductable/payout is absolultely a no-brainer. My issue is this:
Who establishes claimed value to be covered? Is an appraisal required? My car is probably only "worth" $60-63K in stock trim, but I've got $20K plus in receipts for upgrades/mods to the powertrain/suspension/brakes/safety equipment.
I'm all ears, since I plan to double the number of HPDE events this coming year.
That's the other "question". Is there a limit to the number of track days? I'm going to have to call these folks and get educated. My agent and I have an understanding. He'll cover the claim once, then they might well drop me or raise my overall premium by a significant amount.
Mike
Who establishes claimed value to be covered? Is an appraisal required? My car is probably only "worth" $60-63K in stock trim, but I've got $20K plus in receipts for upgrades/mods to the powertrain/suspension/brakes/safety equipment.
I'm all ears, since I plan to double the number of HPDE events this coming year.
That's the other "question". Is there a limit to the number of track days? I'm going to have to call these folks and get educated. My agent and I have an understanding. He'll cover the claim once, then they might well drop me or raise my overall premium by a significant amount.
Mike
First, it is an "agreed value" policy. You and Dave Empringham discuss it and decide what the replacement value of your car is. You can do that in any number of ways, and receipts for mods may be part of the discussion, though I doubt he'd agree to a full $80k. Your deductible (15%, $5000 minimum) and premium (4.06%, $1218 minimum) are driven from that. The reason Dave has to do due diligence and make sure the car is not being over-valued may be obvious, but he needs to avoid a moral hazard.
Second, the term of the Laurel policy is 30 track days or one year, whichever comes first. They used to sell policies with fewer days, but no more.
I've attached my policy, because I see no harm in it. It also points out one additional plus with Laurel - I can attach multiple vehicles to the same policy, with the premium figured on the most expensive car.
#35
Rennlist Member
Well Gary's qouted rate/deductable/payout is absolultely a no-brainer. My issue is this:
Who establishes claimed value to be covered? Is an appraisal required? My car is probably only "worth" $60-63K in stock trim, but I've got $20K plus in receipts for upgrades/mods to the powertrain/suspension/brakes/safety equipment.
I'm all ears, since I plan to double the number of HPDE events this coming year.
That's the other "question". Is there a limit to the number of track days? I'm going to have to call these folks and get educated. My agent and I have an understanding. He'll cover the claim once, then they might well drop me or raise my overall premium by a significant amount.
Mike
Who establishes claimed value to be covered? Is an appraisal required? My car is probably only "worth" $60-63K in stock trim, but I've got $20K plus in receipts for upgrades/mods to the powertrain/suspension/brakes/safety equipment.
I'm all ears, since I plan to double the number of HPDE events this coming year.
That's the other "question". Is there a limit to the number of track days? I'm going to have to call these folks and get educated. My agent and I have an understanding. He'll cover the claim once, then they might well drop me or raise my overall premium by a significant amount.
Mike
#36
Rennlist Member
If you are in the market for DE insurance, search on Rennlist for Laurel. As best I could figure out, there was no AM Best rated insurance company standing behind Laurel and Laurel is not licensed to sell insurance in any US state. I have read on Rennlist of people making claims and getting payment fromLaurel, but it does not seem to be real insurance so there is a further element of risk there.
#37
If you are in the market for DE insurance, search on Rennlist for Laurel. As best I could figure out, there was no AM Best rated insurance company standing behind Laurel and Laurel is not licensed to sell insurance in any US state. I have read on Rennlist of people making claims and getting payment fromLaurel, but it does not seem to be real insurance so there is a further element of risk there.
#39
RamVa Thanks for attaching the policy to look over and Thanks guys for the info. This is truly a great bit of knowledge to help make the best decision possible. I'd rather have "some" additional insurance and not have to go thru the ordeal of contacting my primary agent in the event of an accident on track. I fully understand what you're talking about RamVa with regards to a realistic agreed to value of the car.
Mike
Mike
#40
Rennlist Member
I've had Laurel for about 5 years. They certainly cash my checks promptly. I've never put in a claim so i really don't know how good they are when it comes to a claim.
so ... I hope they're good.
so ... I hope they're good.
#41
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 857
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I'm glad I read the Laurel policy. It only covers the car while it is on the track, not while it is in the pits or on a trailer. I had American Collectors for that reason. I'm OK with a loss on the track, whether DE or racing, as they say, be prepared to walk away from the car.
Off track issues concern me more; Storage, trailering, or sitting in the paddock. These are things I don't have control of, so I want to insure for those types of losses.
Off track issues concern me more; Storage, trailering, or sitting in the paddock. These are things I don't have control of, so I want to insure for those types of losses.
#42
Nordschleife Master
You can get (or already use) your street policy for off-track coverage. But if it's theft you are worried about and your car is NOT insurable for some reason then, yes, finding a policy that covers the paddock is the next line of defense.
#43
I'm glad I read the Laurel policy. It only covers the car while it is on the track, not while it is in the pits or on a trailer. I had American Collectors for that reason. I'm OK with a loss on the track, whether DE or racing, as they say, be prepared to walk away from the car.
Off track issues concern me more; Storage, trailering, or sitting in the paddock. These are things I don't have control of, so I want to insure for those types of losses.
Off track issues concern me more; Storage, trailering, or sitting in the paddock. These are things I don't have control of, so I want to insure for those types of losses.
#44
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 857
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Dell, didn't say I had control on the track, just that I am mentally prepared to lose the car on the track. I wouldn't race a car I wasn't prepared to walk away from.
I know too many folks that have had their trailers and cars stolen, wrecked while towing, or other misshaps. If you store your race car in your garage, and your house burns down, it is not covered by your homeowners insurance.
My needs are not for DE, but for off-track race car coverage. I used the American Collectors DE coverage for this since no normal insurer would cover a race car. I'm looking for similar off-track coverage where full coverage is not required.
I know too many folks that have had their trailers and cars stolen, wrecked while towing, or other misshaps. If you store your race car in your garage, and your house burns down, it is not covered by your homeowners insurance.
My needs are not for DE, but for off-track race car coverage. I used the American Collectors DE coverage for this since no normal insurer would cover a race car. I'm looking for similar off-track coverage where full coverage is not required.
#45
Nordschleife Master
Mark, point noted. And I did address that stating if you needed paddock insurance, that is your next line of defense. It's just that you statement came out as one that seemed like you could control what happened on track but not off. In reality there is NO control in either place.