Mikelly

Well Gary's qouted rate/deductable/payout is absolultely a no-brainer. My issue is this:

Who establishes claimed value to be covered? Is an appraisal required? My car is probably only "worth" $60-63K in stock trim, but I've got $20K plus in receipts for upgrades/mods to the powertrain/suspension/brakes/safety equipment.

I'm all ears, since I plan to double the number of HPDE events this coming year.

That's the other "question". Is there a limit to the number of track days? I'm going to have to call these folks and get educated. My agent and I have an understanding. He'll cover the claim once, then they might well drop me or raise my overall premium by a significant amount.

Mike

Mike S.

Mooty,

Good question. My thoughts here as a non-lawyer...pass by X driver without a point. Plus Turbo driver also never noticed X. For many clubs and events, a point to pass is this is a fundemental rule in order to create a safe driving environment as it simply mimics racing. Assuming this was the case in this event, it may indeed constitute gross negligance. That said, I have read that the burden to prove gross negliance is relatively high and additional facts surrounding the incident and participants will likely determine the type of negligance here. For instance, if the pre event drivers meeting stated that anyone passing without a point will be asked to leave immediately, the Turbo drivers case against X just improved. Or if X told others that I don't care whatever rules they said are in place and I don't have to get a point-by to pass, this is starting to resemble a willful or wanton disregard for the rules with a potential assumption of its consequences. Again, a lean toward gross negliance I'd think. If however a pass without a point is commonplace in this event and both Turbo and X have observed this happening routinely, with X taking his first (unsucessful!) try at it, perhaps things swing to ordinary negligance. If X and Turbo were following each other for many laps w/o any other traffic, both signed off or non-instructed, again a swing toward ordinary negliance in that Turbo should have seem X, despite the "against-the-rules" pass.

Others have said the following which I agree with...DE'ing is communal activity. Everybody has to abide by some simple rules and protocol in order to create as safe a situation as practical. It is absolutely not risk free and many involved are unaware that financial responsability for an on-track accident/incident i up to them if they endure a loss (property or personal)...unless gross negliance is involved. Who's at fault in an ordinary negliance incident is meaningless to recieving compensation for any loss.

Mike

fly2low

Interesting that Chubb is backing WSIB, but Chubb's own company explicitly ecludes DEs. Strange world.

RamVA

I can only speak to the details of the Laurel policy.

First, it is an "agreed value" policy. You and Dave Empringham discuss it and decide what the replacement value of your car is. You can do that in any number of ways, and receipts for mods may be part of the discussion, though I doubt he'd agree to a full $80k. Your deductible (15%, $5000 minimum) and premium (4.06%, $1218 minimum) are driven from that. The reason Dave has to do due diligence and make sure the car is not being over-valued may be obvious, but he needs to avoid a moral hazard.

Second, the term of the Laurel policy is 30 track days or one year, whichever comes first. They used to sell policies with fewer days, but no more.

I've attached my policy, because I see no harm in it. It also points out one additional plus with Laurel - I can attach multiple vehicles to the same policy, with the premium figured on the most expensive car.

Gary R.

Mike - I would figure on an approximate value you think the car could sell for in it's present state. If it's $70K then state it's value at $70K. I have had DE insurance through American Collectors and now WSIB, neither has required any type of formal assessment. Depending on the car, I would look at my worst case scenario and what I would do if it occurred. In my case I would buy back the car and build a new car with the (very expensive) racing bits. This can certainly figure into your final (total value) equation.

Phokaioglaukos

If you are in the market for DE insurance, search on Rennlist for Laurel. As best I could figure out, there was no AM Best rated insurance company standing behind Laurel and Laurel is not licensed to sell insurance in any US state. I have read on Rennlist of people making claims and getting payment fromLaurel, but it does not seem to be real insurance so there is a further element of risk there.

RamVA

Yes, I heard you the first two times you said that in this thread.

Phokaioglaukos

Glad to be of service!

Mikelly

RamVa Thanks for attaching the policy to look over and Thanks guys for the info. This is truly a great bit of knowledge to help make the best decision possible. I'd rather have "some" additional insurance and not have to go thru the ordeal of contacting my primary agent in the event of an accident on track. I fully understand what you're talking about RamVa with regards to a realistic agreed to value of the car.

Mike

fhp911

I've had Laurel for about 5 years. They certainly cash my checks promptly. I've never put in a claim so i really don't know how good they are when it comes to a claim.

so ... I hope they're good.

MarkM

I'm glad I read the Laurel policy. It only covers the car while it is on the track, not while it is in the pits or on a trailer. I had American Collectors for that reason. I'm OK with a loss on the track, whether DE or racing, as they say, be prepared to walk away from the car.

Off track issues concern me more; Storage, trailering, or sitting in the paddock. These are things I don't have control of, so I want to insure for those types of losses.

LVDell

So you are saying you have "control" on the track? Nobody has control on the track. There is oil, coolant, debris, lapses in judgement, stupid drivers, and a host of other items out of your control on the track. The risk is the same........UNKNOWN.

You can get (or already use) your street policy for off-track coverage. But if it's theft you are worried about and your car is NOT insurable for some reason then, yes, finding a policy that covers the paddock is the next line of defense.

RamVA

The Laurel policy requires you to also carry normal street car insurance. (They do this in part to ensure that they're not covering race cars.) This should cover your paddock/trailer/etc. issues.

MarkM

Dell, didn't say I had control on the track, just that I am mentally prepared to lose the car on the track. I wouldn't race a car I wasn't prepared to walk away from.

I know too many folks that have had their trailers and cars stolen, wrecked while towing, or other misshaps. If you store your race car in your garage, and your house burns down, it is not covered by your homeowners insurance.

My needs are not for DE, but for off-track race car coverage. I used the American Collectors DE coverage for this since no normal insurer would cover a race car. I'm looking for similar off-track coverage where full coverage is not required.

LVDell

Mark, point noted. And I did address that stating if you needed paddock insurance, that is your next line of defense. It's just that you statement came out as one that seemed like you could control what happened on track but not off. In reality there is NO control in either place.