Etiquette advice needed......
09-14-2007, 02:08 PM
#61
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09-14-2007, 02:32 PM
#62
If you want to ensure getting a pass signal from everyone, the best place to do it would be to announce it at the driver's meeting. Say something like, "Hi, I'm Paolo and I'm the fastest guy here and unless you want me punting you out of the way like a GTC1 driver, then you better give me the pass signal as soon as you see me in your mirrors."
I'm sure that people will remember you after that.
I'm sure that people will remember you after that.
09-14-2007, 03:08 PM
#63
Team Owner
If you want to ensure getting a pass signal from everyone, the best place to do it would be to announce it at the driver's meeting. Say something like, "Hi, I'm Paolo and I'm the fastest guy here and unless you want me punting you out of the way like a GTC1 driver, then you better give me the pass signal as soon as you see me in your mirrors."
I'm sure that people will remember you after that.
I'm sure that people will remember you after that.
09-14-2007, 03:26 PM
#64
Team Owner
09-14-2007, 04:25 PM
#66
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Paolo:
Are you sure you aren't driving a 944? ?
Seems in PCA events, the 944's must have some type of camouflage that prevents drovers ahead from seeing them in their rear mirrors. Case in point: the GT3 in my run group recently that got a couple of blue flags waved at him and didn't "yield." while I was riding his bumper. For a couple of laps. Oh well, that's life. In my book, a blue flag is as good as a pass.
....My $0.42,
-Z-man.
Are you sure you aren't driving a 944? ?
Seems in PCA events, the 944's must have some type of camouflage that prevents drovers ahead from seeing them in their rear mirrors. Case in point: the GT3 in my run group recently that got a couple of blue flags waved at him and didn't "yield." while I was riding his bumper. For a couple of laps. Oh well, that's life. In my book, a blue flag is as good as a pass.
....My $0.42,
-Z-man.
09-14-2007, 04:28 PM
#67
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09-14-2007, 04:56 PM
#69
To be honest Paolo, I'm not sure what you expect. If you aren't getting pass signals as fast as you like, I can only think of two reasons for that:
1) They don't realize you are behind them.
2) They do realize you are behind them but are choosing not to give you a signal.
If it's problem 1, then approaching them and asking them to give you a signal when they see you will be fruitless. Obviously they have too much going on that they can't check the mirrors, and they probably actually already are giving you a pass signal as soon as they see you. Asking them to give you a pass signal sooner won't help because the basic problem is that they aren't checking their mirrors enough.
If it's reason 2, then they probably have some other reason that they aren't giving you a signal. Talking to them about it may actually be counter-productive.
What I would suggest is that at any long track you go to (Watkins Glen, VIR, etc), to try to be the first one in line at staging. Either that, or be dead last and allow people to get a 1-2 minute headstart. At short tracks (Lime Rock, Pocono North course, etc.), you are basically hosed. Just avoid those tracks until you get into a run group that you think is running at the same pace as you.
In the end, I think Glen had some really good ideas though - just try to find something constructive to do when you are stuck in traffic. I often tell my students to try to approach the turns without using brakes (i.e. the exercise we usually do on cool-down laps). This gives us a chance to enter the turns with a balanced car and then we can see how fast we can go.
1) They don't realize you are behind them.
2) They do realize you are behind them but are choosing not to give you a signal.
If it's problem 1, then approaching them and asking them to give you a signal when they see you will be fruitless. Obviously they have too much going on that they can't check the mirrors, and they probably actually already are giving you a pass signal as soon as they see you. Asking them to give you a pass signal sooner won't help because the basic problem is that they aren't checking their mirrors enough.
If it's reason 2, then they probably have some other reason that they aren't giving you a signal. Talking to them about it may actually be counter-productive.
What I would suggest is that at any long track you go to (Watkins Glen, VIR, etc), to try to be the first one in line at staging. Either that, or be dead last and allow people to get a 1-2 minute headstart. At short tracks (Lime Rock, Pocono North course, etc.), you are basically hosed. Just avoid those tracks until you get into a run group that you think is running at the same pace as you.
In the end, I think Glen had some really good ideas though - just try to find something constructive to do when you are stuck in traffic. I often tell my students to try to approach the turns without using brakes (i.e. the exercise we usually do on cool-down laps). This gives us a chance to enter the turns with a balanced car and then we can see how fast we can go.
09-14-2007, 04:59 PM
#70
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For myself I strive to someday be just another good driver than a great asshat. Frank Lin has pro grade internet *** locked up anyway.
09-14-2007, 05:11 PM
#71
Race Car
09-14-2007, 05:11 PM
#72
Your quote that they might great be instructors might be closer to the truth than you think. I think they are trying to instruct or inform you in a round about way with some funny mixed in. Some folks have noted that you come off as a bit of a cocky asshat here in internet land. I don't know you and you might be a nice guy you might not. I don't loose any sleep from what anyone posts on the “internut” but you might want to consider that your intentions are being misread. If they are not and you do intend to mildly irritate people in this forum then you are doing well.
For myself I strive to someday be just another good driver than a great asshat. Frank Lin has pro grade internet *** locked up anyway.
For myself I strive to someday be just another good driver than a great asshat. Frank Lin has pro grade internet *** locked up anyway.
Paolo is a nice guy, clearly enthused about the sport, tends to write what a lot of us were thinking back when we were students. I.e, "I'm doing 25-30 DE days per year, and I'm stuck with people who do this 3-5 days per year and I'm obviously better. How do I get people to notice so that I can be put into groups that don't have ridiculously long trains in them?"
All I can say is that there is no easy answer. Usually, it takes about a year for everybody to update their files and then they realize that you actually do have quite a bit of track experience under your belt (relative to other novices). Then, hopefully, some nice instructors mentioned the wonderful driving that you have been doing to somebody that matters.
However, if a chief instructor had to place you in a run group, and all they knew about you was what they read on these internet forums... eek!
09-14-2007, 05:13 PM
#73
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Thread Starter
OK then Brian finally, getting info. out of you is like pulling teeth (no pun intended).....
peace......
Kurt, yes you guessed right, I am trying to replace colorchange and GR since I have nothing better to do.....
How am I doing?......Sayonara....
peace......Kurt, yes you guessed right, I am trying to replace colorchange and GR since I have nothing better to do.....
How am I doing?......Sayonara....
09-14-2007, 05:25 PM
#75
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Myself and A930Rocket attended an event 2-3 weeks ago at VIR.
Those guys had the right idea.
We were running the advanced group, passing ANYWHERE with a signal. It was great.
Anyway, on both days they held meetings for our group around mid-morning to make sure everybody was playing well together, etc. And during the meeting (if I recall correctly) something was said by the Chief Instructor to the effect of "if you are getting passed without a signal in your group (the advanced group), don't come complain to me about it".
I think what he meant was, if you are in the advanced group, you should be able to drive and check your mirrors at the same time. If not, don't complain because it means you probably don't belong in the group you are in (since you can't drive and check mirrors at the same time).
One guy in the meeting spoke up and said he wasn't comfortable with the passing anywhere and they told him to either get use to it real quick or step down a group. I loved it, somebody finally willing to make an adjustment so that the majority of us didn't suffer.... (instead of the other way around)
In lower groups lack of passing signals is gonna happen because you've got a pretty diverse mix of experience.
BUT in advanced, DON'T COMPLAIN if you get passed without a signal because there's probably a good reason why you got passed (as in you didn't even know they were there because you were on your Sunday drive).
(before somebody lays into me about condoning passing without a signal and breaking the rules - save your breath, I'm not doing either - all I'm saying is if you are supposedly an advanced driver, you should know who's coming, who's going, etc, so help keep the flow going)
Those guys had the right idea.
We were running the advanced group, passing ANYWHERE with a signal. It was great.
Anyway, on both days they held meetings for our group around mid-morning to make sure everybody was playing well together, etc. And during the meeting (if I recall correctly) something was said by the Chief Instructor to the effect of "if you are getting passed without a signal in your group (the advanced group), don't come complain to me about it".
I think what he meant was, if you are in the advanced group, you should be able to drive and check your mirrors at the same time. If not, don't complain because it means you probably don't belong in the group you are in (since you can't drive and check mirrors at the same time).
One guy in the meeting spoke up and said he wasn't comfortable with the passing anywhere and they told him to either get use to it real quick or step down a group. I loved it, somebody finally willing to make an adjustment so that the majority of us didn't suffer.... (instead of the other way around)
In lower groups lack of passing signals is gonna happen because you've got a pretty diverse mix of experience.
BUT in advanced, DON'T COMPLAIN if you get passed without a signal because there's probably a good reason why you got passed (as in you didn't even know they were there because you were on your Sunday drive).
(before somebody lays into me about condoning passing without a signal and breaking the rules - save your breath, I'm not doing either - all I'm saying is if you are supposedly an advanced driver, you should know who's coming, who's going, etc, so help keep the flow going)