Etiquette advice needed......
#31
So now that everyone has made good suggestions of what to do after the 20 minute session is over, what does one do 5 minutes into the session?
My suggsetion is to go thru the pit, at a very slow pace, take you time and alow for some track distance between you and Mr. SlowA$$. While your obtaining this valuable space, swing by pit control and report the issue. If the organization is running properly they should black flag the guy.
My suggsetion is to go thru the pit, at a very slow pace, take you time and alow for some track distance between you and Mr. SlowA$$. While your obtaining this valuable space, swing by pit control and report the issue. If the organization is running properly they should black flag the guy.
#32
1) If you are in a dangerous situation take the pass without a signal (rare, but I had to do it recently)
2) Go right into control after the end of the run group - go with a bunch of guys to make the point (I've had this work a number of times)
3) CLUB RACING - the dark side is calling you Paolo
BTW, don't think it changes when you move up to higher run groups. I was running in Black yesterday with only 15 cars on the track at LRP and had a couple cars that would refuse to give me a point by. In one situation I lapped the person twice after finally getting the point by.
2) Go right into control after the end of the run group - go with a bunch of guys to make the point (I've had this work a number of times)
3) CLUB RACING - the dark side is calling you Paolo
BTW, don't think it changes when you move up to higher run groups. I was running in Black yesterday with only 15 cars on the track at LRP and had a couple cars that would refuse to give me a point by. In one situation I lapped the person twice after finally getting the point by.
#33
There are lot of good suggestions here with good attitudes. I'm hopeful i'll be out there next year learning.
(and trying not to hold folks up). I'm seeing some attitude towards "slower" drivers. Yes, likely i'll be Mr. SlowA$$. I would be curious as to why those who want to name call "learners ie slower drivers" aren't out racing rather than doing Driver Education events?
(and trying not to hold folks up). I'm seeing some attitude towards "slower" drivers. Yes, likely i'll be Mr. SlowA$$. I would be curious as to why those who want to name call "learners ie slower drivers" aren't out racing rather than doing Driver Education events?
#34
While this can be very frustrating it is one of the hazards of DE. Deal with it and move on. In the right frame of mind I'm sure you will find one of the suggestions above will work for you. Winning your DE group is not going to put food on the table or get you a ride with the Ferrari F1 team.
One point that this brings up is how each region has its own characteristics. I'm guessing this was not up North with Rennsport.
Some regions basically have less backbone or character when dealing with ego's and personalities ("Don't you know who I am?" "My new Porsrche is the top of the line" "The CI is my friend" Blah Blah Blah....). The tone is set though from day one in Green. The regions that promote people because of personality vs. performance are doing a disservice to their own region. But this type of thing happens in clubs with people who volunteer their time for all of us to have fun driving on the track.
You shouldn't be of the mind set that this ruins your day at the track.
One point that this brings up is how each region has its own characteristics. I'm guessing this was not up North with Rennsport.
Some regions basically have less backbone or character when dealing with ego's and personalities ("Don't you know who I am?" "My new Porsrche is the top of the line" "The CI is my friend" Blah Blah Blah....). The tone is set though from day one in Green. The regions that promote people because of personality vs. performance are doing a disservice to their own region. But this type of thing happens in clubs with people who volunteer their time for all of us to have fun driving on the track.
You shouldn't be of the mind set that this ruins your day at the track.
#35
Documenter of Ineptitude
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,855
Likes: 0
From: Madison, WI
There are lot of good suggestions here with good attitudes. I'm hopeful i'll be out there next year learning.
(and trying not to hold folks up). I'm seeing some attitude towards "slower" drivers. Yes, likely i'll be Mr. SlowA$$. I would be curious as to why those who want to name call "learners ie slower drivers" aren't out racing rather than doing Driver Education events?
(and trying not to hold folks up). I'm seeing some attitude towards "slower" drivers. Yes, likely i'll be Mr. SlowA$$. I would be curious as to why those who want to name call "learners ie slower drivers" aren't out racing rather than doing Driver Education events?
What drives most people crazy are drivers that don't watch their mirrors. Do that one simple thing and you won't have any of the problems people are talking about here.
#36
There are lot of good suggestions here with good attitudes. I'm hopeful i'll be out there next year learning.
(and trying not to hold folks up). I'm seeing some attitude towards "slower" drivers. Yes, likely i'll be Mr. SlowA$$. I would be curious as to why those who want to name call "learners ie slower drivers" aren't out racing rather than doing Driver Education events?
(and trying not to hold folks up). I'm seeing some attitude towards "slower" drivers. Yes, likely i'll be Mr. SlowA$$. I would be curious as to why those who want to name call "learners ie slower drivers" aren't out racing rather than doing Driver Education events?
One approach you may want to try if your region has a social hour at the end of the day would be to:
1. grab everyone's attention
2. introduce yourself and car
3. ask people to be better about watching thier mirrors, pointing out the person and car number that pissed you off.
#37
Have you ever noticed that this does not seem to be an issue with low HP cars? Folks in 944's, 914's, Mini's, and even Boxsters all seem more than happy to give me a point by if I have enough speed to catch them (not always the case). It always seems to be a guy (and it is almost always a guy) in a GT3, Turbo or new 997, who thinks that there is no way that guy in the old 911 should be passing him.
rickdm
rickdm
#38
There are lot of good suggestions here with good attitudes. I'm hopeful i'll be out there next year learning.
(and trying not to hold folks up). I'm seeing some attitude towards "slower" drivers. Yes, likely i'll be Mr. SlowA$$. I would be curious as to why those who want to name call "learners ie slower drivers" aren't out racing rather than doing Driver Education events?
(and trying not to hold folks up). I'm seeing some attitude towards "slower" drivers. Yes, likely i'll be Mr. SlowA$$. I would be curious as to why those who want to name call "learners ie slower drivers" aren't out racing rather than doing Driver Education events?
As long as you take the instruction you get from the right seat to heart you'll do great.
#39
..."Hey pal, you either need bigger mirrors, stronger prescription glasses or just plain learn how to drive, but you are holding me up with your fancy car and should stick your hand out as soon as you see me coming....." in a diplomatic, gentlemently, PCA approved version?...
#40
#41
"I am a DE douchebag who thinks he's fast, when in fact I couldn't finish on the lead lap in a two lap race"
IMO, no one that is actually fast would ever say anything. Just get over it and move on. It's DE, and the number of good drivers is slim. I find that the people with the biggest egos at DEs are normally darn slow. And if you don't want to be held up, go racing.
IMO, no one that is actually fast would ever say anything. Just get over it and move on. It's DE, and the number of good drivers is slim. I find that the people with the biggest egos at DEs are normally darn slow. And if you don't want to be held up, go racing.
#42
It has nothing to do with speed. It has everything to do with awareness, safety and respect for other drivers. For every one of us there are many, many faster drivers. All anyone wants is that the people who we're on track with are aware of what's going on around them and respectful of the other drivers on track.
As long as you take the instruction you get from the right seat to heart you'll do great.
As long as you take the instruction you get from the right seat to heart you'll do great.
I've derailed the thread long enough.
I'm guessing the real issue is folks that deliberately refuse to signal a pass.
#43
...Here are a couple of exercises I have always used at the track that will help with the problem of getting stuck behind slower traffic, or trains. When I start to gather traffic even in the Instructor groups I begin to drive off line and try to get through the corners as quick as the car ahead who is online. Another method is to cut the track in half and make the track You are on only half as wide. in one session run the left half and then try the right half. The last exercise is to drive the marbles line. All of these allow You to be a much quicker driver , or in a much quicker car and still allow You to drive at or near the limit while slowing you down effectively. These drills also make You much more prepared to handle adversity at various tracks whether in a DE or Race environ. Just a couple of thoughts.
__________________
Thanks, Glen
__________________
Thanks, Glen
#44
Still plays with cars.
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,078
Likes: 256
From: Montreal
Sputter - don't worry, you will have fun. Slow cars are not the issue, nor are slow drivers. Two things happen often:
1) In an instructed group, the instructor in the car ahead has his hands full with his student and may not be watching the mirrors as much as he'd like because s/he is busy trying to keep things safe. Be patient or drive through the pits - feel for the hard working volunteer in the car in front.
2) In any group, a car with blistering speeds in a straight line that over-brakes for corners and is slower than a less powerful car that turns faster laps. This leads to two annoying (potential) behaviors: a) gives the signal and then floors it ..motoring off down the straight while the better driver lags behind; b) sees you on his bumper at corner entry and does not give a signal because he knows he will pull away on the straight - very annoying. This happens with 996TT more ofen than with a 150 HP 944 as you might imagine
I black flag those guys without mercy. They raise frustration levels and are a hazard.
Being a novice driver and possibly with a low powered car will not cause anyone to look down on you - we all started there. Drive at your own pace, just be aware of faster cars sharing the track with you and everyone will respect you.
In the top run groups a mix of low and high powered cars is common. There are no issues becuse the drivers in the slower (on the straights) cars are aware of the GTs, Turbos etc. coming up and let them by without hesitation. Redlineman and I shared a track recently. His cornering speeds are very high (he has it easy, he never lifts), my car has more than double the horsepower of his - no issues, we co-exist easily. Why? Because he is aware of his surroundings and like everyone in the Red run group he has nothing to prove and lets higher powered cars go by.
The funny thing is that the middle run groups are where cars get held up. There seems to be a notion that being passed is like being emasculated or something. Oddly enough, on a ski hill, if an expert flys up behind, do these same people try and keep pace? NO, of course not, they recognize someone more skilled. Behind the wheel, this doesn't happen as much because anyone who can afford a GTx or TT is automatically a skilled driver, right?
Note: I apologise for typos but I am useless on my blackberry keyboard with large thumbs.
Best,
Best,
1) In an instructed group, the instructor in the car ahead has his hands full with his student and may not be watching the mirrors as much as he'd like because s/he is busy trying to keep things safe. Be patient or drive through the pits - feel for the hard working volunteer in the car in front.
2) In any group, a car with blistering speeds in a straight line that over-brakes for corners and is slower than a less powerful car that turns faster laps. This leads to two annoying (potential) behaviors: a) gives the signal and then floors it ..motoring off down the straight while the better driver lags behind; b) sees you on his bumper at corner entry and does not give a signal because he knows he will pull away on the straight - very annoying. This happens with 996TT more ofen than with a 150 HP 944 as you might imagine
I black flag those guys without mercy. They raise frustration levels and are a hazard.
Being a novice driver and possibly with a low powered car will not cause anyone to look down on you - we all started there. Drive at your own pace, just be aware of faster cars sharing the track with you and everyone will respect you.
In the top run groups a mix of low and high powered cars is common. There are no issues becuse the drivers in the slower (on the straights) cars are aware of the GTs, Turbos etc. coming up and let them by without hesitation. Redlineman and I shared a track recently. His cornering speeds are very high (he has it easy, he never lifts), my car has more than double the horsepower of his - no issues, we co-exist easily. Why? Because he is aware of his surroundings and like everyone in the Red run group he has nothing to prove and lets higher powered cars go by.
The funny thing is that the middle run groups are where cars get held up. There seems to be a notion that being passed is like being emasculated or something. Oddly enough, on a ski hill, if an expert flys up behind, do these same people try and keep pace? NO, of course not, they recognize someone more skilled. Behind the wheel, this doesn't happen as much because anyone who can afford a GTx or TT is automatically a skilled driver, right?
Note: I apologise for typos but I am useless on my blackberry keyboard with large thumbs.
Best,
Best,
#45
Sputter - To follow up on Bob's point...when you get a little more advanced you start to hope that someone is going to blow by you so you can get on their tail and try to catch them. I personally love it when a cup car or something fast and well driven runs up on me.