McLaren fined but drivers OK
09-13-2007, 06:17 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
Wow, it is nice to be proven wrong on this one.
09-13-2007, 06:20 PM
#33
Burning Brakes
For whatever it's worth (and it's probably worth very little if anything at all), this verdict has made the front page of the NYTimes web site. I think that's the first time I've ever seen F1 news on that site.
09-13-2007, 06:24 PM
#34
Race Director
It is one thing for a team to develop a creative interpretation of the rules in order to make their car faster. Even if under detailed scrutiny the part is likely to be disallowed it may be worth it for the 2-3 races if flys under the rader.
Having a 780 page propritary technical document from your main competitor is a very bad thing and crosses a major line.
09-13-2007, 06:43 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: In the pasture.
Posts: 4,202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't see how the drivers get no penalty. Last I checked the drivers are part of the team. If the team cheated and benefited from it, so did Wayne's s-p-e-c-i-a-l driver and pretty boy. Kimi and Massa are leading for the WC. Winning this way is not good for anyone but FA getting another WC like this? BIG asterisk. Barry Bonds comes to mind.
09-13-2007, 06:44 PM
#36
Formula One Spin Doctor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Last edited by A.Wayne; 09-13-2007 at 07:10 PM.
09-13-2007, 06:47 PM
#37
Formula One Spin Doctor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I don't see how the drivers get no penalty. Last I checked the drivers are part of the team. If the team cheated and benefited from it, so did Wayne's s-p-e-c-i-a-l driver and pretty boy. Kimi and Massa are leading for the WC. Winning this way is not good for anyone but FA getting another WC like this? BIG asterisk. Barry Bonds comes to mind.
HEY, we are talking Sports here not a girlie freak show like baseball....
09-13-2007, 06:51 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
09-13-2007, 06:54 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
Also on front page of Fox News dot com
09-13-2007, 09:07 PM
#40
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Montréal, Québec, Canada
Posts: 972
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't see how the drivers get no penalty. Last I checked the drivers are part of the team. If the team cheated and benefited from it, so did Wayne's s-p-e-c-i-a-l driver and pretty boy. Kimi and Massa are leading for the WC. Winning this way is not good for anyone but FA getting another WC like this? BIG asterisk. Barry Bonds comes to mind.
09-13-2007, 09:21 PM
#41
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Piacenza, Italy - Montreal, Canada
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't believe the issue is how many seconds mclaren got off the Ferrari data, that's a question for the ages... As far as we know, the ferrari data might actually have made them slower, lol. Maybe that's why it's not on the car.
If I'm not mistaken the court deliberated on Mclaren being guilty of unfair, frodulent conduct, violation of sporting behavior, etc...(the whole article 151c). I believe the point was not what they got out of the Ferrari's technical papers, but that they HAD the ferrari technical papers, knew about them and used them evidently. Some people seem to confuse the two (Mclaren having unfair car, and Mclaren having unfair conduct). I'm still hoping for the court evidence tomorrow to clarify some mystifying points.
Sadly, as I've been reading some comments people left in various news articles of the latest developments, this thing isn't doing FIA, Formula 1, the other teams, even Ferrari image much good.
09-13-2007, 09:28 PM
#42
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Montréal, Québec, Canada
Posts: 972
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If I'm not mistaken the court deliberated on Mclaren being guilty of unfair, frodulent conduct, violation of sporting behavior, etc...(the whole article 151c). I believe the point was not what they got out of the Ferrari's technical papers, but that they HAD the ferrari technical papers, knew about them and used them evidently. Some people seem to confuse the two (Mclaren having unfair car, and Mclaren having unfair conduct).
So if Alonso and Hamilton did not engage in this behavior it may not be necessary to take their points.
09-13-2007, 11:04 PM
#43
Drifting
First let me say that i am not a ferrari fan by any stretch of the imagination. I admire what they have accomplished in F1 with Schumi from 97 to 05, but beyond that... nothing works for me, except perhaps the 575M GT car.
Frankly, given who is behind the R&D investments (remember where reactive suspension and paddle shifting comes from), the stakes, the sponsors involved, and really the notion of industrial espionage, does anyone on this board really believe that the fine and penalty imposed upon McLaren is sufficient?
Imagine if this case would have been between Mercedes and Ferrari about road car development... forget about $100M.... we would be talking about a large multiple of that, and criminal prosecution.
09-14-2007, 12:11 AM
#44
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Belichick fined $500,000, New England Patriots fined $250,000 for stealing opponents play calls with a videocamera on the sidelines. Team will lose their 2008 1st round draft pick if they make the playoffs or 2nd and 3rd round draft pick if they don't reach the playoffs.
Whoops, wrong forum.
Whoops, wrong forum.
09-14-2007, 01:04 AM
#45
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 951
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Man oh man! Come on people. This reminds me of the steroid scandal when Ben Johnson was caught. Everyone was slamming Ben as being unfair and shameful for what he had done. In reality he was doing what others were doing. We now accept the fact that steroids have been well established in most sports for years. The only thing we should be talking about is the fact that Ben Johnson and McLaren got caught. Are we so naive to think the F1 community hasn’t been polluted with scandalous spying and espionage since its inception? Every form of competitive racing is utterly consumed by emissaries whose sole task is to find what the competitors are doing. Guess what folks, there’s a reason why they look so alike.
They got caught. That’s it. I’d be more concerned at the high bar that the “Ben & Bernie Show” have set. Every competitive team is going to do their best to claim another team has gained an unscrupulous advantage at their expense.
This reminds me of the steroid scandal when Ben Johnson was caught. Everyone was slamming Ben as being unfair and shameful for what he had done. In reality he was doing what others were doing. We now accept the fact that steroids have been well established in most sports for years. The only thing we should be talking about is the fact that Ben Johnson and McLaren got caught. Are we so naive to think the F1 community hasn’t been polluted with scandalous spying and espionage since its inception? Every form of competitive racing is utterly consumed by emissaries whose sole task is to find what the competitors are doing. Guess what folks, there’s a reason why they look so alike. They got caught. That’s it. I’d be more concerned at the high bar that the “Ben & Bernie Show” have set. Every competitive team is going to do their best to claim another team has gained an unscrupulous advantage at their expense.