multi21

What is up with everyone stealing everyone elses material? I expected this from f1planet, but grandprix.com... is nothing sacred?

paradisenb

If cheating is an agreed upon development tool, why the penalty? Common place? Yes. A legal part of R&D? I don't believe so.

I agree that taking the thought to the exteme, serial killers, is over the top but, the essence is the same at the low and high. Only thing that changes is how easy it is to justify the actions. Human nature. White lie as opposed to a 'Real Lie'. What ever that is.

daigo

Randy,
I agree human nature plays heavily into this arguement. I'm also in agreement that it's hard to justify having rules if all we're going to do is break them. But we're all guilty of that. I know I probably drove over the speed limit today on my way to work. But I also know I didn't go through a crosswalk during a red light.

BTW, if I did go over the speed limit it was very little

DaveM993

Remember the old days in Nascar? Didn't Richard Petty try putting fuel in his roll cage tubing? Personally I love the creativity in figuring out how to take a rule and search for its breaking point... (edit: in motorsports...)

paradisenb

I totally agree.

I don't make a 'right or wrong' argument until it hurts someone else. To me that is where acceptable behavior crosses the Rubicon.

penguinking

ESPN had a great article w/ lots of examples on cheating in nascar's history.

more examples -

when cars were weight with the driver, one tactic was wearing a lead helmet and carrying a lead water bottle when being weighed.

way back when there were rules only governing the size of the fuel cell. so they fashioned a way so that several more gallons could be held in the fuel lines.

daigo

Penske was the King of this. The last fueling of the race the fuel can had lead pellets in it. Another one was when the car was rolled into tech for ride check, he had a crew member stand beside every tire. They actually rolled the car onto their toes. They got caught pretty quick. So many more stories.

penguinking

what was especially interesting was the setup teams used when cars used to go out in qualifying trim... back when you were able to set the car up differently for qualifying

Nano

I think in this case the intentions of Mclaren were somewhat disregarded in order to protect a greater value (a value which was deemed fundamental to formula 1). Even if it's only by the actions of a few individuals, Mclaren's liability was confirmed on the basis they had the duty and ability to control their employees, and by not taking actions against them benefited from the deed and enabled harm to the image of Formula 1. This is not a case of blatantly cheating VS creative rule interpretation, this is a step forward from that, it is already a case of unacceptable sporting conduct (and most agree on that). My legal understanding of strict liability was applied, somewhat like a parent being responsible for the actions of a child.

fuenfer

Heard an interesting rumor on SpeedTV during the Spa practice session. Apparently, the word in the paddock is that Alonso tried to blackmail Ron Dennis into not only making him he undisputed team leader, but also suspending Hamilton from driving the rest of this season. Alonso threatened to go to the FIA with this information, and because of that, Ron Dennis had to preemptively disclose further information to the FIA.

If this is true, any modicum of respect I've had for Alonso is effectively gone.

smlporsche

I heard the too and like you if true it knocks FA down several notches in my book.

A.Wayne

I heard it was MS , here he is seen with his Mclaren Mole.....
He was upset Ferrari took away his ride for 07...

A.Wayne

Another rumor floating around is that , Alonso caught Kimi celebrating in Drag and kimi was the one feeding info to Mclaren , but he stopped after the monaco GP , he fessed up to todt and gave him all the necessary info , which help in sealing Mclaren's fate

Deanriffs

Anyone know how the $100M breaks down by ownership? That's a lot of dough. I wonder how it works out for Mercedes vs. Dennis, others, etc.

I also wonder what the top 3 fines in sports history are This seems way over the top.

Nano

revenues in F1 are over the top.

100m doesn't mean much in absolute terms... a 20K fine in some sports might be a bankruptcy disaster, in F1 it would be pocket change, or crumbs.