07 Turkish GP , Review and Results ....
08-27-2007, 11:00 AM
#61
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Well, he did have the pace. Him doind the fastest lap at the end was little bit of retaliation agaist JT's orders to not challenge Massa, you gotta love that.
Unfortunately you just can't pass so easily in F1 (your favourite, Alonso mentioned that too although I'm sure you think he had such a great drive.
) especially if you have your team mate in front of him. I have no question in my mind you know that too.
Kimi screwed up the quali (as he admitted, didn't blame the team, team principal or the world etc. like some other drivers tend to do, just blamed himself) which still seems to be weak part of him at Ferrari. It has gotten better though and race pace has been way better than Massa's for a while now.
Shame that Lewis' bad luck only resulted him being 5th, if he had dropped out of the points completely, Massa, Kimi & Fernando would've been a lot closer.
Kimi is easily the no. 4 of the top 4?
I know you're probably saying that just to **** me off but in the process you're totally losing your credibility.
Unfortunately you just can't pass so easily in F1 (your favourite, Alonso mentioned that too although I'm sure you think he had such a great drive.
) especially if you have your team mate in front of him. I have no question in my mind you know that too. Kimi screwed up the quali (as he admitted, didn't blame the team, team principal or the world etc. like some other drivers tend to do, just blamed himself) which still seems to be weak part of him at Ferrari. It has gotten better though and race pace has been way better than Massa's for a while now.
Shame that Lewis' bad luck only resulted him being 5th, if he had dropped out of the points completely, Massa, Kimi & Fernando would've been a lot closer.
Kimi is easily the no. 4 of the top 4?
I know you're probably saying that just to **** me off but in the process you're totally losing your credibility.
Kimi cannot beat Massa, He wins if Ferrari interferes with Massa, He has never beaten Massa in a straight race and setting the fastest lap when Massa is pacing himself to the finish is a joke, What he should be telling us is why he lost the race , why Massa is faster , Instead he started to cry like the others. SO now we have 4 cry babies ...
7 months ago i told you he would finish 4th , he is on his way , unless of course Ferrari intervines, He does not have the ultimate pace for Massa........He is 4th of the top 4 .... with the mclaren duo being a step ahead
Last edited by A.Wayne; 08-27-2007 at 11:25 AM.
08-27-2007, 12:32 PM
#62
The "gist" I received from this, and many times I am right about non-verbal exhanges because I attempt to study them often, is that Kimi just finished whining about his 2nd place finish in an F1 race. I think Masa, with his 1st place finish and much better outlook on life, said "Dude, you just finished 2nd place in a 1-2 Ferrari finish ahead of a WC Alonso, and you're whining? Be positive!
08-27-2007, 12:35 PM
#63
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Star of the Race
Felipe Massa showed once more that he can lead from the front, clinching Ferrari's second 1-2 of the season.
http://planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3265_2688284,00.html
Star of the Race
Felipe Massa, Ferrari, 1st
Massa made just one small mistake on his way to his second Turkish GP victory. He locked his tyres and ran slightly wide in Turn 12 on Lap 39, but not enough for Kimi Raikkonen to take advantage. That was it. The rest of the race he drove perfectly.
Having trailed in practice on Saturday he saved up one of his banzai attempts for pole in qualifying, and though Raikkonen threw away P1 in Q3, Felipe did not. (The irony is that Raikkonen binned his qualifying lap so badly that finishing in P3 was a much better option than starting from P2).
Though Raikkonen showed what he could do on lap 57 by taking the Fastest Lap of the race, had Massa been let off the leash he could probably have matched it, he'd matched Raikkonen all the way through.
The Ferrari fight back has started.
http://planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3265_2688284,00.html
Star of the Race
Felipe Massa, Ferrari, 1st
Massa made just one small mistake on his way to his second Turkish GP victory. He locked his tyres and ran slightly wide in Turn 12 on Lap 39, but not enough for Kimi Raikkonen to take advantage. That was it. The rest of the race he drove perfectly.
Having trailed in practice on Saturday he saved up one of his banzai attempts for pole in qualifying, and though Raikkonen threw away P1 in Q3, Felipe did not. (The irony is that Raikkonen binned his qualifying lap so badly that finishing in P3 was a much better option than starting from P2).
Though Raikkonen showed what he could do on lap 57 by taking the Fastest Lap of the race, had Massa been let off the leash he could probably have matched it, he'd matched Raikkonen all the way through.
The Ferrari fight back has started.
08-27-2007, 12:37 PM
#64
I want to know when the Speed team will stop focusing so much on Hamilton. In the 3rd qualy, they were gushing so much about Hamilton, they didn't notice that Massa had taken pole! Then in the race they were gushing again about how Hamilton was so smart to keep the car straight (when the tire went down) and not damage the car! Come on, I'm getting really tired of this.
08-27-2007, 12:40 PM
#65
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Winners , Losers
WINNERS
Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari, 2nd
Just as in 2006, the Ferrari driver who made a small mistake in qualifying saw it come back to haunt him the following day. Raikkonen's error in Q3 left him at a disadvantage that he couldn't recover from. What is more interesting is the posturing of his pitcrew who came out a lap early for the all-important second stop. Is there a bit of gamesmanship in the Ferrari team as well as McLaren.
Fernando Alonso, McLaren, 3rd
Alonso made a poor choice of tyre in qualifying and looked to have paid for it when he sank to sixth place away from the line. He was fortunate to pick up a podium after Hamilton shredded his tyre on Lap 42, though in the second stint when neither McLaren driver was impeded there was hardly anything between the two of them. On Lap 29 Hamilton had a 14 second lead on his team-mate and on Lap 41 it was 13.8 seconds.
As for Fernando's status within the team, this weekend saw another new low in his ability to manage relations with his colleagues. Last year he pissed off the Renault team mightily when he suggested after the Chinese GP that they didn't want him to win the World Championship. This after he himself had picked the wrong tyre for his middle stint at Shanghai and Michael Schumacher came romping past as if he had switched to nitro.
Now Fernando has made the disastrous suggestion that he alone has made the McLaren 0.5 to 0.6 seconds a lap quicker and is not being rewarded for it. He really ought to check his bank statements. The figure that goes in there every month is reckoned to be double what Renault were paying him - and he was a World Champion even then. Fernando's resemblance to Winnie the Pooh's Eeyor is growing. He's becoming one of those people who is never happy unless he's unhappy.
Nick Heidfeld, BMW, 4th
Heidfeld had the benefit of the better race strategy and wasn't a million miles away from Alonso at the line. In the PF-1 race preview it was predicted that BMW might take more risks now they seem to have 3rd place in the Constructor's Championship sewn up and so it proved with Robert Kubica's 12 laps of fuel. Were they hoping for an early Safety Car or what?
Heidfeld reaped the benefit.
Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, 5th
Hamilton could be in either winners or losers, because he lost a certain 3rd place and potentially more. We were in the critical phase of the race when his tyre blew, but he was putting in mid 1:28 second laps before his final pit-stop while the Ferrari drivers with race distance fuel onboard were doing mid 1:29s.
We shall never know if he could have won or not but it would have been close wherever he'd have come out of the pits. Hamilton's Lap 42 puncture certainly robbed us of the gripping finale to what was an unholy tedious race. Had he managed to exit the pits just behind the Ferraris then it would have been a *****-out charge to the flag. Though you doubt he could ever have got past.
As it was, Lewis managed to salvage five points by a very swift return to the pits once he had punctured. That kind of 'save' is almost Schumacheresque in nature although it certainly helps if you're due in the pits anyway.
Heiki Kovalainen, Renault, 6th
Renault were a lot closer to BMW here than they imagined they were going to be and Kovalainen drove another strong race to put them there. He tried his hardest to close the gap to Hamilton in the dying laps, but his sector times showed that he's a long way short of his metronomic predecessor.
Nico Rosberg, Williams-Toyota, 7th
Rosberg continued to burnish his driving CV with another strong drive, holding Kubica at bay for the final stint. When Frank Williams says he has a contract till 2009 and he is absolutely not for sale that means he IS for sale but only for a great deal of money (as per Jenson Button).
Anthony Davidson, Super Aguri, 14th
Ant was the star of qualifying with two extraordinary laps to get him out of Q1 and almost into Q3. He got caught out by Fisichella's nudge of Jarno Trull in Turn 1 but he'd already got the glory on Saturday.
F1 Reliability
21 cars finishing out of 22 cars starting - with temperatures in the mid-30's - counts as the high water mark of F1 reliability. It's an astonishing statistic. McLaren need just 10 more finishes to record the first all-finishing F1 season.
LOSERS
Ron Dennis, McLaren
It's getting a bit tedious listening to Ron saying that everything is fine between his two drivers and that they have thrashed out their differences. Alonso's fuse burns long and takes but a puff of breeze to re-ignite it. We witnessed this in the argument he had with Felipe Massa as the two prepared to take the podium at the Nurburgring. The Spanish GP had been over for a whole two months, but still Alonso wanted Felipe Massa to take the shame for running him off the road. (Massa did what any F1 driver would have done in the circumstances, Alonso included).
Though Ron's pledge to equality is fantastic for the sport and the neutral spectator, we all know when we're being kidded.
Robert Kubica, BMW-Sauber, 8th
Should have got 5th or 6th, and not 8th.
Giancarlo Fisichella, Renault, 9th
Now that Heiki Kovalainen has established himself the likelihood that Fisi will stay on for another season is remote. His first lap collision with former team-mate Jarno Trulli only reinforced the view that he is heading out of F1 at the end of the season. The fact that Renault have Nelson Piquet Junior waiting in the wings means that Flav can leave his decision late, but we have no doubt it will come.
Ralf Schumacher, Toyota, 12th
With a team-mate who qualified 9th, Ralf's P18 start position wasn't nearly good enough. It is surely now a matter of when, not if.
Mark Webber, Red Bull, DNF
It would have been 22 finishers out of 22 starters if it hadn't been for Mark Webber's hydraulics problem. Even Achilles had a more reliable heel than the Red Bull hydraulics.
That Mark - Git orf me Barra- Moment
Like the race itself Mark Blundell was a massive disappointment in Istanbul, even though he threatened to break lose with references to "infringements" of the neck muscles. All we ended up with was the paltry:
"These guys are athletes, there's no two ways about that."
Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari, 2nd
Just as in 2006, the Ferrari driver who made a small mistake in qualifying saw it come back to haunt him the following day. Raikkonen's error in Q3 left him at a disadvantage that he couldn't recover from. What is more interesting is the posturing of his pitcrew who came out a lap early for the all-important second stop. Is there a bit of gamesmanship in the Ferrari team as well as McLaren.
Fernando Alonso, McLaren, 3rd
Alonso made a poor choice of tyre in qualifying and looked to have paid for it when he sank to sixth place away from the line. He was fortunate to pick up a podium after Hamilton shredded his tyre on Lap 42, though in the second stint when neither McLaren driver was impeded there was hardly anything between the two of them. On Lap 29 Hamilton had a 14 second lead on his team-mate and on Lap 41 it was 13.8 seconds.
As for Fernando's status within the team, this weekend saw another new low in his ability to manage relations with his colleagues. Last year he pissed off the Renault team mightily when he suggested after the Chinese GP that they didn't want him to win the World Championship. This after he himself had picked the wrong tyre for his middle stint at Shanghai and Michael Schumacher came romping past as if he had switched to nitro.
Now Fernando has made the disastrous suggestion that he alone has made the McLaren 0.5 to 0.6 seconds a lap quicker and is not being rewarded for it. He really ought to check his bank statements. The figure that goes in there every month is reckoned to be double what Renault were paying him - and he was a World Champion even then. Fernando's resemblance to Winnie the Pooh's Eeyor is growing. He's becoming one of those people who is never happy unless he's unhappy.
Nick Heidfeld, BMW, 4th
Heidfeld had the benefit of the better race strategy and wasn't a million miles away from Alonso at the line. In the PF-1 race preview it was predicted that BMW might take more risks now they seem to have 3rd place in the Constructor's Championship sewn up and so it proved with Robert Kubica's 12 laps of fuel. Were they hoping for an early Safety Car or what?
Heidfeld reaped the benefit.
Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, 5th
Hamilton could be in either winners or losers, because he lost a certain 3rd place and potentially more. We were in the critical phase of the race when his tyre blew, but he was putting in mid 1:28 second laps before his final pit-stop while the Ferrari drivers with race distance fuel onboard were doing mid 1:29s.
We shall never know if he could have won or not but it would have been close wherever he'd have come out of the pits. Hamilton's Lap 42 puncture certainly robbed us of the gripping finale to what was an unholy tedious race. Had he managed to exit the pits just behind the Ferraris then it would have been a *****-out charge to the flag. Though you doubt he could ever have got past.
As it was, Lewis managed to salvage five points by a very swift return to the pits once he had punctured. That kind of 'save' is almost Schumacheresque in nature although it certainly helps if you're due in the pits anyway.
Heiki Kovalainen, Renault, 6th
Renault were a lot closer to BMW here than they imagined they were going to be and Kovalainen drove another strong race to put them there. He tried his hardest to close the gap to Hamilton in the dying laps, but his sector times showed that he's a long way short of his metronomic predecessor.
Nico Rosberg, Williams-Toyota, 7th
Rosberg continued to burnish his driving CV with another strong drive, holding Kubica at bay for the final stint. When Frank Williams says he has a contract till 2009 and he is absolutely not for sale that means he IS for sale but only for a great deal of money (as per Jenson Button).
Anthony Davidson, Super Aguri, 14th
Ant was the star of qualifying with two extraordinary laps to get him out of Q1 and almost into Q3. He got caught out by Fisichella's nudge of Jarno Trull in Turn 1 but he'd already got the glory on Saturday.
F1 Reliability
21 cars finishing out of 22 cars starting - with temperatures in the mid-30's - counts as the high water mark of F1 reliability. It's an astonishing statistic. McLaren need just 10 more finishes to record the first all-finishing F1 season.
LOSERS
Ron Dennis, McLaren
It's getting a bit tedious listening to Ron saying that everything is fine between his two drivers and that they have thrashed out their differences. Alonso's fuse burns long and takes but a puff of breeze to re-ignite it. We witnessed this in the argument he had with Felipe Massa as the two prepared to take the podium at the Nurburgring. The Spanish GP had been over for a whole two months, but still Alonso wanted Felipe Massa to take the shame for running him off the road. (Massa did what any F1 driver would have done in the circumstances, Alonso included).
Though Ron's pledge to equality is fantastic for the sport and the neutral spectator, we all know when we're being kidded.
Robert Kubica, BMW-Sauber, 8th
Should have got 5th or 6th, and not 8th.
Giancarlo Fisichella, Renault, 9th
Now that Heiki Kovalainen has established himself the likelihood that Fisi will stay on for another season is remote. His first lap collision with former team-mate Jarno Trulli only reinforced the view that he is heading out of F1 at the end of the season. The fact that Renault have Nelson Piquet Junior waiting in the wings means that Flav can leave his decision late, but we have no doubt it will come.
Ralf Schumacher, Toyota, 12th
With a team-mate who qualified 9th, Ralf's P18 start position wasn't nearly good enough. It is surely now a matter of when, not if.
Mark Webber, Red Bull, DNF
It would have been 22 finishers out of 22 starters if it hadn't been for Mark Webber's hydraulics problem. Even Achilles had a more reliable heel than the Red Bull hydraulics.
That Mark - Git orf me Barra- Moment
Like the race itself Mark Blundell was a massive disappointment in Istanbul, even though he threatened to break lose with references to "infringements" of the neck muscles. All we ended up with was the paltry:
"These guys are athletes, there's no two ways about that."
08-27-2007, 12:45 PM
#66
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NO finn , It will show when you have to turn over your bottle
Kimi cannot beat Massa, He wins if Ferrari interferes with Massa, He has never beaten Massa in a straight race and setting the fastest lap when Massa is pacing himself to the finish is a joke, What he should be telling us is why he lost the race , why Massa is faster , Instead he started to cry like the others. SO now we have 4 cry babies ...
7 months ago i told you he would finish 4th , he is on his way , unless of course Ferrari intervines, He does not have the ultimate pace for Massa........He is 4th of the top 4 .... with the mclaren duo being a step ahead
Kimi cannot beat Massa, He wins if Ferrari interferes with Massa, He has never beaten Massa in a straight race and setting the fastest lap when Massa is pacing himself to the finish is a joke, What he should be telling us is why he lost the race , why Massa is faster , Instead he started to cry like the others. SO now we have 4 cry babies ...
7 months ago i told you he would finish 4th , he is on his way , unless of course Ferrari intervines, He does not have the ultimate pace for Massa........He is 4th of the top 4 .... with the mclaren duo being a step ahead
Only place where you can blame Ferrari "interfering" is Hungary and even there, it really didn't do much since Massa was so friggin' slow during Q2 anyway & also during the race he was just lame. Australia his car let his down but Kimi has had his share of techincal failure also so how you say Kimi only beats Massa when Ferrari is interfering or Kimi has never beaten Massa is just beyond me.
08-27-2007, 12:49 PM
#67
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I want to know when the Speed team will stop focusing so much on Hamilton. In the 3rd qualy, they were gushing so much about Hamilton, they didn't notice that Massa had taken pole! Then in the race they were gushing again about how Hamilton was so smart to keep the car straight (when the tire went down) and not damage the car! Come on, I'm getting really tired of this.
Took them forever to realize Massa had taken the pole and that praise during the race was just pathetic. They sound like teenage girls talking about justin Timberlake or something.
08-27-2007, 12:54 PM
#68
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Kimi beat Massa in Hungary, Silverstone, Magny-Cours, Canada (Massa ran the red light so he screwed up), Malaysia (Massa's rookie mistake put him in kitty litter) and Australia.
Only place where you can blame Ferrari "interfering" is Hungary and even there, it really didn't do much since Massa was so friggin' slow during Q2 anyway & also during the race he was just lame. Australia his car let his down but Kimi has had his share of techincal failure also so how you say Kimi only beats Massa when Ferrari is interfering or Kimi has never beaten Massa is just beyond me.
Only place where you can blame Ferrari "interfering" is Hungary and even there, it really didn't do much since Massa was so friggin' slow during Q2 anyway & also during the race he was just lame. Australia his car let his down but Kimi has had his share of techincal failure also so how you say Kimi only beats Massa when Ferrari is interfering or Kimi has never beaten Massa is just beyond me.
Finn, layoff the bottle, Massa had car problems in aus and started from the pitlane at Silverstone , he has started from ther pitlane at least twice and has felt the brunt of the "Barrichello syndrome" more than Kimi , SO PLEASE ! you would be very hard press to find anyone outside of finland who feels KImi is faster than Massa, ONly in France did Kimi beat a running Massa and watch the replay Massa Fuel stop was FU and that gave Kimi the win ... he does not have the out right pace to match Massa , he is just not as fragile...
Beat Massa or hand over the Bottle
he will finish 4th as predicted ..
08-27-2007, 12:55 PM
#69
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08-27-2007, 02:05 PM
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I want to know when the Speed team will stop focusing so much on Hamilton. In the 3rd qualy, they were gushing so much about Hamilton, they didn't notice that Massa had taken pole! Then in the race they were gushing again about how Hamilton was so smart to keep the car straight (when the tire went down) and not damage the car! Come on, I'm getting really tired of this.
The fact that Kimi is putting in fast laps at the end of the race is very telling IMO. This is just speculation, but I believe he is saying two things. First, his true pace is being retarded probably due to his race engineers telling him to preserve the car. We all know that Kimi is hard on equipment and he is being restrained in race pace. Yesterday was the 2nd race on that engine, so fresh engines will be available for the long straights of Monza. He could afford to turns it up without much consequence on the last lap yesterday.
Second, but probably of less consequence is his fitness. In the past he has always been questioned about his activities off the track and commitment, some focused on his level of fitness. At the end of races, when others are cruising, he's pushing in hot and humid conditions. Once again, just speculation on my part.
08-27-2007, 02:55 PM
#71
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Agree completely. Peter Windsor is getting to be too much when he comments on Hamilton.
The fact that Kimi is putting in fast laps at the end of the race is very telling IMO. This is just speculation, but I believe he is saying two things. First, his true pace is being retarded probably due to his race engineers telling him to preserve the car. We all know that Kimi is hard on equipment and he is being restrained in race pace. Yesterday was the 2nd race on that engine, so fresh engines will be available for the long straights of Monza. He could afford to turns it up without much consequence on the last lap yesterday.
Second, but probably of less consequence is his fitness. In the past he has always been questioned about his activities off the track and commitment, some focused on his level of fitness. At the end of races, when others are cruising, he's pushing in hot and humid conditions. Once again, just speculation on my part.
The fact that Kimi is putting in fast laps at the end of the race is very telling IMO. This is just speculation, but I believe he is saying two things. First, his true pace is being retarded probably due to his race engineers telling him to preserve the car. We all know that Kimi is hard on equipment and he is being restrained in race pace. Yesterday was the 2nd race on that engine, so fresh engines will be available for the long straights of Monza. He could afford to turns it up without much consequence on the last lap yesterday.
Second, but probably of less consequence is his fitness. In the past he has always been questioned about his activities off the track and commitment, some focused on his level of fitness. At the end of races, when others are cruising, he's pushing in hot and humid conditions. Once again, just speculation on my part.
08-27-2007, 03:06 PM
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While Kimi getting fast lap at the end must have meant something to him that we may never know, I'm sure he caught flak for it. Could you imagine the fallout if he ran off track and gave up one or two positions? Or worse....
08-27-2007, 03:13 PM
#73
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Kimi did outpace Massa in Qualifying the last 3 previous races. He made a mistake in turkey. There are a few signs of improvement from Kimi.
Up to france, except australia, FM outpaced Kimi every single time in Q.
Up to france, except australia, FM outpaced Kimi every single time in Q.
08-27-2007, 03:30 PM
#74
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The last 3 races
1. Kimi was faster @ Euro GP
2. Massa had no fuel for Q3 @ Hungary , so without gas, yes Kimi was faster
3. Massa faster @ turkey
with both drivers running Kimi has Out Q3 Massa twice, Canada and Silverstone ....and with Massa's Pace @ Silverstone, it would have been interesting to see where he would have finished if he had started from the grid ..
Is there something i'm missing Here
08-27-2007, 03:38 PM
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Just looking at qualies, disregard the race.
Kimi had pole in Nurburgring
In Britain, Kimi was again in front of massa.
You are right about hungary, but if you squint your eyes real hard, kimi was outpacing massa.
if you look at the previous races, it's much much worse for kimi
so in qualies
the last 4 races it's 3-1 for kimi
the previous 8 races it's 8-1 for massa
that's a shred of improvement
edit - I forgot Canada
Kimi had pole in Nurburgring
In Britain, Kimi was again in front of massa.
You are right about hungary, but if you squint your eyes real hard, kimi was outpacing massa.
if you look at the previous races, it's much much worse for kimi
so in qualies
the last 4 races it's 3-1 for kimi
the previous 8 races it's 8-1 for massa
that's a shred of improvement
edit - I forgot Canada