Nano

we are not allowed to ASSume anything, but you can ASSume that had massa had enough fuel to complete Q2, he would have qualified for Q3.

That's an even bigger Hungarian ASSumption, you're drinking from under the desk!

Before beating your teammate in the race, you should beat him in qualies (this your quote?)

(Never said he was faster, I still think Massa is doing a better Job, Kimi is slow and overpaid, and chances for better than a 4th place are slim.... but I see sign of improvements).

taking the 4 last races and going in deeper details kimi vs massa
Kimi qualified in a better position 3 times out of 4
Kimi has 3 podium finishes over 2 podium finishes for Massa
Kimi prodcued 26points over Massa's 22 (and that's with a DNF in Euro... only Alonso did better)

what happens if he keeps this up? (I lost you on the 14 points.)

Flying Finn

And I told him not to drink (from my soon to be Finlandia) bottle!!!

A.Wayne

Nano,
This is fascinating , you have now asked and answered you own question and moved on to start a conversation, where it seems only the finn understands, Hmmm, if nothing to add , say so , i have said my piece , we will now move on to more informative programming ...

A.Wayne

By Jonathan Noble Monday, August 27th 2007, 10:41 GMT

McLaren believe they made life too easy for Ferrari in the Turkish Grand Prix after seeing their title rivals take a dominant 1-2 victory.

Felipe Massa and Kimi Raikkonen were unstoppable as they delivered a result that closed down McLaren's advantage in both the drivers' and constructors' championships.

And after looking back on the event, McLaren F1 CEO Martin Whitmarsh thinks that the team could have done a better job in making Ferrari work harder for their success.

"It was disappointing," he said after the race. "I think Ferrari were good here - they were strong. Overall I think we can say we were a little bit unfortunate to just miss out in qualifying.

"Perhaps our launch control wasn't good enough, but we were on the wrong side of the track and maybe we had the wrong tyres on as well. Those things played into it and Ferrari did a good solid job.

"It was pretty close between the two of us and in the end we didn't quite get them in qualifying. We made poor starts and then Fernando (Alonso) lost time behind BMW, and Lewis (Hamilton) got the puncture. We made it a bit too easy for them in the end."

Whitmarsh believes that without his puncture, Hamilton was poised to jump at least one of the Ferraris at his final stop – having been fuelled for a longer middle stint than his rivals.

"They were all pushing hard at that stage – and Lewis was running five laps longer. If he could have been within three seconds he could have got at least one of them at that final stop. With the puncture he had to come in early, lost that much time and had a damaged car too.

"But overall, we go away still leading both championships and have done a lot of work to bring performance to Monza. I'm sure Ferrari want to show well there too."

multi21

From what Ferrari has publicly put out there, the driver who puts up a faster time in Q2 will get 1st choice in fuel strategy and hence the race. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Kimi had the faster Q2 time. He chose to go lighter and probably would have been on pole yesterday had he not made a mistake in Q3.

As it turned out, Kimi was fortunate to have qualified 3rd because that put him on the clean side of the track. Couple that with the fact he was lighter than Hamilton, Kimi easily slipped by Hamilton off the start.

Fast forward to the middle stint of the race when Kimi is putting pressure on Massa, Massa starts to lock up and made small mistakes. I imagine Todt is on the radio telling Kimi to back off, it's not worth coming together, save your tires, we're still 1-2.

As little as Kimi says, you have to read between the lines with him. His comments to the press are somewhat passive aggressive when he mentions that he's bored, so he decides to put in a fast lap and in the post race conference, he mentioned something to the effect that it would not be safe to try and pass your teammate when your running 1-2. Of course suggesting that he could have challenged Massa if he was allowed to.

A.Wayne

Maybe he was telling massa to backoff also , like he did in france when he was told not to challenge the finn...

A.Wayne

By Jonathan Noble Monday, August 27th 2007, 10:26 GMT

Ferrari have ruled out imposing any early team orders on Felipe Massa and Kimi Raikkonen in a bid to increase their chances of beating McLaren to the world championship this year.

The Maranello team's two drivers are separated by just one point in the title chase and their well-matched speed makes it likely that they will be taking points off each other for the rest of the season.

With the fight for the championship so close, such freedom to race until one of them is mathematically out of the title hunt means the team run the risk of just missing out on the crown by sharing the points out too much.

But Ferrari team principal Jean Todt insists that Raikkonen and Massa will be left completely free to compete with each other.

When asked whether or not he would consider a change of tactics to favour one driver and maximize his points scoring chances, Todt said: "No. It will be something that will be inappropriate with drivers like Felipe and Kimi, doing such a good job, after 12 Grands Prix with just one point difference.

"Most of them had problems because of some mistakes that we did. They made some mistakes, but that is normal. We are human beings, and at the moment there is not any plan to make any kind of strategy between one or the other one."

After seeing Massa close down Lewis Hamilton's title advantage to 15 points with five races to go, and Ferrari now just 11 points behind McLaren in the constructors' championship pending an FIA Court of Appeal hearing, Todt believes the title fight is on.

"We feel it is still open. It will be tough, but it is always tough. And as I always said, we will try the best until the end and I believe we still can carry this on."

Nano

sorry, I lose you in posts, but fair enough


Monza, Kimi vs Massa, my grappa is on Kimi
Massa cracks

multi21

That could be. From the Ferrari TEAM point of view, both driver's are as close as possible in points, why risk something when your 1-2. Whoever happens to be in front will hold that position. It certainly has gone both ways so far this season. It's clear that they (Massa, Kimi) will hold their positions when faced against each other.

Nano

if Mclaren happens to be in a 1-2 situation at monza, I'd take it Mclaren will instruct the driver to do the same. But you never know, Hamilton and Alonso could decide to take eachother out and hand a 1-2 to Ferrari.

multi21

I'm sure McLaren has talked about that after the next to last GP. But recall Indy where Alonso tried to overtake Hamilton a couple times at the end of the straight.

Nano

Yeah, but they weren't 9 points apart.

I don't know, drivers in this situation should probably sort out orders on their own. I don't really see any benefit right now of Ferrari using team orders, the drivers seem motivated and strong right now. I'd let them duke it out and stimulate them to cooperate. Kimi and Felipe have the ability to work orders on their own, less likely for Fernando and Louis. That's probably what they all should do

but you never know

multi21

Agreed, but it's different when your chasing rather than leading. If Massa and Kimi were leading, I think we'd be seeing the same kind of infighting at Ferrari. There is just too much at stake.

As far as tracks, the balance of the race schedule seems to favor the Ferrari's, but I think they're too far behind unless, Godforbid, Alonso and Hamilton take each other out.

Nano

That's true also... but in the course of the season, love at mclaren between LH and FA has trully blossomed, harder to turn the boat around once **** breaks loose. Ferrari has just had to not follow the example, they seem much more focused on bringing home points and beating the others vs beating eachother.

As far as the cars are concerned, I think Ferrari has a slight edge now.

Ray S

You crack me up. Just because Kimi couldn't pass him doesn't mean he wasn't faster (after all he posted the fastest lap of the race). Additionally, Masa certainly wasn't drawing away from Kimi.

I suppose Nick was faster than Alonso. After all, Alonso couldn't pass him straight up during the race right???