Jarez Mifkin

**Disclaimer** I am asking these three questions to the owners and users of the HANS device, users of other H&N devices need not reply as there is no need to say that device 'a' is better than device 'b' here.


Has anyone ever used the Sparco 8pt Harness, Did you like it? Would you use this harness with your HANS device.

"The ideal solution for drivers who have difficulties becoming comfortable with their HANS® we’d like to introduce the newly designed “double belt” harness. The double belt has been tested and proven in F1, WRC and NASCAR.
HANS® specific 8-Point Double Shoulder Professional Restraint:


8 Point Restraint
Dual shoulder belt system for HANS® use
The 2” "HANS Belt" runs over the HANS® device, the 3” "Body Belt" runs under the HANS® device (see diagram to the right for details)
3” Lap belts
T-bar version
Aluminum aircraft quick release buckle fixed to the anti-sub strap
Pull Up
Snap In Harness
Approximately 2.60 kg (5.70 lbs)
SFI rated and FIA homologated
Rating valid generally for 5 years with most sanctioning race bodies"

Phokaioglaukos

I use the Schroth Hybrid II Hans-specific 6-point belt for the driver's side. They are comfortable and convenient. I think Schroth has a product similar to Sparco.

RedlineMan

Hey;

The Sparco system is MADE by Schroth for Sparco, if I remember right. In fact I had heard that ALL the Sparco belts were re-branded Schroth items now. not sure. In any event, it is certainly patented technology, and the hardware and material certainly look like Schroth.

I would not want to discourage anyone from being as safe as could be, but I think this is a bit of overkill for most of us. I know they can be a bit tricky to setup properly as well.

Waiting for FatBillyBob to chime in, since he uses them.

I'm with Chris in feeling very secure with my Schroth Hybrid Hans 3/2 system.

ltc

Disclaimer:
I own multiple H&N restraints (HANS, ISAAC, Leatt) and I have no interest in yet another H&N restraint jihad.

As John mentioned, this "dual shoulder" strap design has been discussed here in the past, under the Schroth name.
As John mentioned, it is a non compromise installation based harness; you need to be able to modify/move your horizontal bar(s) to suit your height, seat slots and harness terminations.

Dale Gribble

I believe Sparco's cam lock FIA approved belts are sabelt made. On the back of my sparco camlock, it clearly said sabelt on it. The webbing could be schroth though. Schroth makes awsome belts

fatbillybob

I was on vacation...yup I use them. When I bought mine they were from schroth and I like the sc design better than sp. Sc uses the single 6 pt subs that attach to the laps and uses the hybrid cam. I do not know if sparco has this. Sc harness is very comfortable. It is a pain to get just right and still sometimes the 2" hans will slip off the hans collar because you can't get the 3" and the 2" equally tight which contributes to belt dumping. A full containment seat limits motion and really helps. I have tried countless variations in harnessbar mounting to get the system to work. Comfort is better than just hans and the 3" belt or the 3 into 2" single hans belt. If anyone thinks the regualr hans mounting is hard this dual belt unit is hard times 4. Joe at HMS really tried to help but in the end offered to just put me in a 3/2 single hans belt but I would not give up. They even got mad at me when I suggested the idea of crossing the shoulder belts in front which really held everything perfect but I guess there is not testing on that and I got basically chewed out for even thinking about it. I wish someone would tell me why that is bad. I think this dual belt is more of a problem with thin people. I'm size small and only a 36s dress suit size. If the 2" belts were attached to the 3" belt on the inside of the 3" hardware instead of the middle the 2" hans belts would be 1" more inboard and keep the 2" belts better positioned on the hans collar. The current problem I have is that being thin the 2" belt does not seat a well on the collor tails of a small hans so with lots of movement the 2" can slip off the collar. Interestingly, I talked to HANS about this and they basically said the important part of the belt is what retains on the neck end of the hans not the tails. They do not seem to think that belts off the tails by the solar plexus is a problem. Joe At HMS seems to be very tied into Scrotch yet they were not interested in my comments on what may make the dual belt system better for a thin person. Dispite that I really like these belts and think they could be better and I would buy them again. One thing nice is 2 belts reduce your stretch in a crash and if the 2" belts slips the 3" is still there. If with normal single belts hans system is the hans slips your belts are loose = bad. So there are lots of nice things about the dual belt. I was at a seminar and Dr. Melvin from HANs said if he raced he would use the dual belt sytem. There is probaly more biodynamic reasons for his statment than I know about. I think that if you are a medium using a medium hans (or large user) the dual belt will fit you better and work better and have less mounting issues than a small guy like me. I am so small I offset the chest adjuster hardware just a bit so the belts can be put closer together. That extra 1/2" is important for me.

John H

Huh, I don't know why I pictured you as a toothless mullet wearing fat guy.

Jarez Mifkin

Me too...


Thanks for the harness info!

ltc

Perhaps due to the fact that a 'crossed shoulder belt' configuration would act like a high sternum strap and may be an issue to your neck/trachea in the event of an impact coupled with forward body motion?
Unlike the sternum strap (which is sewed into a 'fixed' (static) position relative to the harnesses and the driver, a 'crossed shoulder belt' configuration has no such fixed 'pivot point', at least relative to your neck/trachea.

ltc

Herein lies the fundamental issue (flaw) with the HANS device:
1. As a non captive H&N restraint, it is very difficult to keep the HANS under the shoulder harnesses. Hence the evolution over the years of 'wings', 'friction material', 'HANS specific 3"-2" shoulder belts', etc.
2. Due to #1 above, the use of the 'dual shoulder belt' harnesses "preferred" by Dr Melvin is simply the latest attempt to overcome this limitation in the design of the interface between the HANS and the driver/harness configuration.
Of course, the more you restrain the driver's motion (laterally, i.e. full containment seats/cockpits), the less likely this mode is to occur.

The main problem with the HANS is simple: how do you know you do not have a compromised (geometry) installation? Yes, you can wear it, yes, you can feel confident that many pro series require it, but those are under very different circumstances with repesct to a non compromised design, full containment seats/monocoques, etc. Unfortunately, without being able to (sled) test your installation geometries, combined with your cockpit containment, you really don't know.

Please, no intention of starting a flame war, please remember I own a HANS and a couple other H&N restraint devices. Just simply an engineering observation.

Garen

Could be. I picked up a set of 6 point 3 inch harnesses from Sparco earlier this year, and the parts are branded sparco as well as Schroth. The manual actually has quiet a few Schroth logos. FIA certified, by the way.

-Garen (87 930 CS)

fatbillybob

I hear you but perhaps the crossed straps allow movement so your neck is not in the same danger as with the fixed strap? I do not understand the biodynamics. Also look at Teamtech units like their jetpilot system. It uses a fixed strunum strap but get away with this because they say the velcro will break away before it chokes you. Well perhaps? If the Teamtech sturnum strap really works it would be the superior system because it can hold the shoulders to the hans collar and tails until impact so atleast you are in the proper position for the first hit. I think the problem with hans is not so much the first hit but the ping pong hits. But perhaps energy is below 4000N injury threshold so it does not matter. Perhaps this is the reason for surviveablity yet many sled videos showing the tails poping out .

fatbillybob

Your thinking here seems resonable on the surface but still I use microsoft products too. 800lb gorillia syndrome...

HooliganX

+1 My Sparco belts all have "made by Schroth" tags on them.

ltc

At one point, the HANS manual said the use of a sternum strap (to keep the harnesses from 'spreading) in an impact, thus holding the device under the belts).....however, it has since been removed entirely from user documentation.
It did mention that the location of the strap would need to be below/at the bottom of the (chest) tails of the HANS.
There is no longer any mention of a sternum strap location/use, last time I checked.