JC in NY

Kurt no doubt there is a fine line of decorum when discussing these things. In some cases friends may be involved, etc. But it does effect us all who put our cars on the track. And there are those of us who are instructors. I have to admit I have been thinking about quitting instructing lately for various reasons. I can't say hearing about incidents like this doesn't weigh on my decision.

LVDell

This is my one fear instructing......getting hurt. The very FIRST thing out of my mouth to my students is that I have to put my "dick attitude" for a sec and proceed to tell them very sternly that we are here to have fun and get better as the weekend progresses and it is of the utmost importance to LISTEN and not try to do something on your own that you "think" you can do, that is for me to determine. I'll evaluate your performance and as we move through the weekend I will keep giving you more rope (no not to hang yourself ) to push more limits based upon what I think you (and your car) can handle. Further my safety is NOT in my hands but rather in yours and I have no desire to give that control up so it is imperative to LISTEN. Then my "dick attititude" rant is over and explain the concept of fun and that we are going to have alot of it over the weekend!

ltc

https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-and-drivers-education-forum/218703-fatality-at-wgi-de-this-weekend.html

}{arlequin

i'm unzipping as i type this

(hope both occupants have a speedy and healthy recovery)

paradisenb

This may sound unconventional but, I think students should not be allowed to use gears higher than 3rd for their first 3 days on track. Keep the speeds down while the student adjusts their senses/reactions to things happening faster and faster. During this time, car control skills and techniques could be taught and emphasized. This graduation to higher speeds may make it safer for student and instructor. Baring mechanicals there is no reason for a student to be allowed to hurt themselves or others. Very few are safe at speed in the beginning. Some, like me, are safe because we are slow and recognized the limits of our skills and experience. Others don't get the concept. "I do 90 mph every day on the way to work. This is no different."

TD in DC

This happens every time there is a wreck. Everyone starts speculating about the cause and talking about issues that may or may not be relevant.

I am sure the truth will come out eventually.

In the meantime, let's not rush to judgment and let's all hope that the students and instructors are fine.

A.Wayne

I will put an additional post in Braile for you next time , them we can discuss

LVDell

Randy, while in theory that sounds good, there are places on the track where you wouldn't want them in 3rd gear. 3rd gear isn't the same in all cars. For example, my car is over 100mph in 3rd! There are many places to get burned at that speed. It really comes down to the instructor teaching the slow is fast approach. MY student this past weekend didn't understand how he could be 15 seconds faster on a 4.2 mile course by going "slower". I asked him to relax on the gas and the brake and just take it easy so we can "work on the line". I proved my point very easily.

A.Wayne

You where out Solo , pushing your limits , i"m cool with that no harm no foul , but in DE, DE is THE Beginning , it only requires you to learn , listen and most of all be safe, I'm sorry a serious accident like this , first timer in DE , NOT ACCEPTABLE ...


LVDELL, , you have ***** of steel man, ***** of steel and the patience of Job.......

bobt993

TD, good point. Thoughts and prayers to those involved. I looked at a wall yesterday while ridding with an advanced student in T9 (Summit). From the apex to track out I knew we were in trouble, but coached (yelled) verbals and and hand points through a farming experience all the way to the bridge. Dirty car and shorts, but nothing else. Did I help the avoidance? Yes. Did I still feel lucky, yes. Again, I hope those involved are okay, very unfortunate.

kurt M

This is towards my point but better said. Talking about things without the true details is one thing, using an injury producing incident for an old worn platform is another. I am 100% all for deconstructing an incident for learning purposes and do so whenever possible. Learning from the mistakes of others is less costly in man and materal than making your own. I like to study banged up track cars not for any ghoul factor but to see what worked and what did not. This goes for mechanical and driver caused incidents and what lead up to them as well.

Without the hard facts little but idle conjecture can be produced and conjecture will likely only hurt those involved and the sport as a whole. Folks were spouting off and others were defending before we thread readers even knew which turn it happened in much less what happened. DE is already under some harsh scrutiny and loose uninformed talk in an open forum can't help. A true deconstruction, on the other hand, will.
I will still buckle into the right seat without any more hesitation than before this or any of the other incidents that involved instructor or student injury. Any reluctance will be assessed at the student and car level.

I will amend my rant as I don't want to add to what ticked me off in the first place. This is one forum where there are often good discussions about topics that would go out of control elsewhere.

LVDell

Thanks Wayne. It just comes with me being a college professor as my profession. I have to have an immense amount of patience and understand that there is a reason I am at the front of the classroom (or in the right seat).....I am the "expert". I have to say though that I took a long break from instructing b/c I felt I was losing my patience and feared I would sign sombody off prematurely just to get rid of them or worse yet, not give proper instructing b/c I was focusing on my was trying my patience rather that show what is the proper way to do it. Now that I am back in the business of instructing I don't instruct at every event. This allows me to "heal" from the last weekend of instuction and keeps my ***** made of steel

My most enjoyable instruction is the type I do with my fellow advanced cohort. I like to go out with guys that are looking for tenths (not seconds) and need objective feedback to point out what they might be doing wrong or any bad habits that have been picked up. I actually feel safer in the car doing mach2 with my hair on fire with those guys that seeing the granny in the walker pass me in the student group

jgrant

First timer in DE? Where did you get this from? Sounds like you're fabricating info to fit your ideas on DE. How about we leave the "red mist" for the track?

As it is, we know nothing other than 2 accidents occurred.

Sorry to hear anyone was hurt, and I hope they heal 100% and quickly.

It will, however, be interesting to hear what the contributing factors and details might be.

A.Wayne

Sounds like you have done this before .....

Nathan Muir

Give it a break, you are growing tiresome and this is the wrong time and place.